22. Practitioner's Podcast: The Failure Episode

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the practitioners podcast where we're applying Jesus style disciple-making to everyday life this episode and all of our episodes are powered by navigators church ministries which help churches focus on making disciples who can make disciples for more information.

Check out navigators church ministries.org. Good morning Justin. Oh fantastic. Random question to the day. Are you ready? I'm ready for it. We just celebrated president's day. So I'm curious. Favorite president of all time go. Oh wow. Okay. I'm going to go. I have two in my mind but I'm going to go with the more popular of the two and that would be Theodore Roosevelt.

just because he seems like a guy I would love to hang out with just to be around them. That guy had lots of energy lots of boldness in him just a leader of leaders. So I'm going with Teddy. How about you? I am going to go with George w and here's why because I that's George W. Bush because when I was deployed.

president Bush got on an airplane of a group of soldiers who I was deployed with. He didn't get on my airplane but he got on this airplane full of soldiers and banger Maine. He was there talking to troops. He got on this plane and he spent an absorbent amount of time with these troops. And one of my friends somebody who would become my friend while we were deployed President.

She was talking to her mom before the plane took off. And then president Bush got on board unbeknownst to anyone he was giving. I mean it was like it wasn't planned. And he he got on the phone with her mom and and they they chatted for a little bit and he assured her just he was just a really kind and gentle guy.

So I I I appreciated the way he led after nine 11 and I appreciated the way that he always talked to the troops. That's awesome. Very cool. Yeah. Okay. Well you never know right? You never know that's right. you know today's episode is about what we learned from what we don't know. And so that's that's a great segue into what we're calling the failure episode.

It's like we're giving them sunshine and lollipops here. Well I was just thinking. Presidents are familiar with failure right? Pretty much every president has something in their administration that that can be considered a failure. So I don't I know we didn't plan that segway but it fits but we're here now and here we are having in success and we're living in failure.

Just the nature of it. And and I think I think it's important to start off the episode with the idea of why we're talking about failure and and I love the Winston Churchill quote success is not final. Failure is not fatal. It is the courage to continue that counts. And I love that quote because it's a reminder that failure comes with life right?

It's that the longer you're alive and the longer that you're making disciples the more likely you are to fail. As a matter of fact we both have and we're going to share today numerous stories of our failure. Justin why do you think it's so important for us to talk about the failures when it comes to disciple-making?

Yeah I think Well when you're doing a podcast or when you're teaching on something whether in a podcast form or wherever as we do with disciple-making and discipling it's easy for people to put you up on a pedestal and think that you always get it right. Or that you know you're really good at it all the time.

And and that's just not the case. Right? So a lot of our skill and expertise in discipling has come as a result of lots of failure. And so we failed frequently and hopefully we're failing forward. and that's really helped us to learn and grow and we're still doing that. And so all our failures are not in our past.

but the other part is disciple-making is not simple. Right. And so I compare it comparing it yesterday actually with a group of people that I was with. Oh we're talking about the difference between disciple-making and more of traditional ministry. Traditional ministry is comparatively simple right?

Teach a class preach a sermon. You know whether you did that or whether you didn't and success is not measured as much in. the response or transformation in those that you are speaking to or teaching it's more looked at in terms of did you did you communicate and disciple-making is way different from that?

Right. And so with the complexity of disciple-making there's just failure that comes with it. And so that's why I think it's super important that we. Recognize all those things and kind of lean into them in a public way here. that yeah we do fail. We don't get it right all the time. Well and I think one of the interesting parts about this idea is that disciple-making you know we've always talked about it's it's intentional it's relational it's reproducible.

And so. We all have tendencies one way or another. And so when we talk about failing we typically will fail in the weaknesses of the areas that we that we have in our own lives. So when we look at our failures in hindsight what we see are areas of growth in our own lives. Now also let's just be honest.

There are some times that failures are. Because you picked poorly you know here's a here's a great example. I was discipling this young man in the church who I love and I'm still friends with. Right. And I thought he was ready to be discipled. Right. We we talked about faithful available teachable.

It's an episode we've done before. And that's what we look for when we're picking somebody. And I thought he was faithful and available and teachable and we met and turned out. He just wasn't teachable. He wasn't motivated. So what would happen is and I spent probably six months with this guy and I will say I wasted six months but I spent six months with this guy trying to get him motivated.

Right. Trying to plant that vision. And I'm giving these great speeches and I'm waxing eloquently about the benefits of life-giving disciple-making. And then we give that smart goal at the end as we do to be intentional and like go do this homework and you know Nothing nothing. That's right. Yeah. I've been there.

I've been there. So yeah I've made a similar mistake and I call it picking on potential rather than picking on what you see in their life. Right. And so there was a guy that years ago I tried to disciple. Was a leader of leaders. I mean he would walk into the room and start talking to people and people wanted to follow him.

He wasn't even trying to lead them anywhere but they were following him and I thought oh yes completely. And he had a heart for God. but. So I thought all right if I can disciple this guy if he can be aimed towards things of the kingdom and making disciples he would be an amazing world changing disciple maker.

And so I started to try to disciple him and we started to get together and and as things were happening it was similar to your story. Like we would have great conversations. And then he wouldn't do anything. And I would communicate you know as eloquently as I knew how about the power of the gospel and what God has allowed us to be a part of and building his kingdom both in making new disciples and building up disciples to maturity so that they could do the same and and he'd kind of nod along but it never got it.

And it was a complete wouldn't say again not a waste of my time. It was a valuable time to connect with him but it didn't accomplish what what we were hoping or what I was hoping actually it would accomplish. Yeah. And so it's so funny right? Because we're both very careful about saying well it wasn't a waste of time.

Okay. Because we don't ever want to think that a relationship with someone is a waste of time. but the truth is you and I both think about this the same way is that we have certain hours of our week that we set aside for disciple-making. And so we kind of categorize that kind of stuff. Like I have family time I have work time and then I have disciple-making time.

And now that time I'm in my world because of the work that I get to do it it kind of goes into work time and it goes into a little bit of family time. But you know we both really believe that disciple-making is something that every Christian is called to do and we have to create time for them.

Intentional relationship. But one of the dangers for me of being so relational is that sometimes. That time gets moved into different zones. It's like if you've ever dated someone and they put you in the friend zone I lived in the friend zone for a long time with my wife before we got married. And sometimes I'm still in the friends that no that's a whole different podcast but the truth is is that I can be so relational and I want to connect with people.

And I want to hear people's hearts that that all of us. My lack of intentionality in the relationship will subtly give the relationship permission to move. Into pastoral counseling more into friendship or into something other than intentional. Disciple-making that makes sense. Yeah that's so good Tony because when when we don't have real clarity on what we're trying to do then we're not going to reach the objectives that we're hoping to get to.

And disciple-making right. That direction where somebody has grown to maturity and now they are. equipped with heart vision and skill to help others do the same to to know Jesus and to help him grow help them grow to maturity. And I made a SIM I'm not nearly as relational as you we've talked about.

but early on I would make similar mistakes. And the reason I would make those mistakes is because I just wanted to have somebody to disciple. And so I have had guys where I've I'm discipling them quote unquote but really what I'm doing is I'm just hanging out with them. I just have a friendship with them and.

It's meeting a need in me more than a meeting a need and them because I had a need to have somebody in that category of Leon discipling them. But really all I was doing was hanging out with them because they weren't ready. And. I didn't know how to move the the relationship or move a person who wasn't ready to a place where they they were ready.

And so we just spent a lot of time hanging out together and we had a good time. but it wasn't fruitful in a disciple making sense. Yeah. So so let me ask you this. Cause I think a lot of people are like wow you guys really have failed a lot. So that's really cool. But what do you typically tell yourself when you After you you've failed in a disciple-making relationship.

What what's the what's the narrative going on in your mind after something that you thought was going to be super successful has ceased to be successful? Yeah. for me the narrative is normally well that that didn't go well. what can I learn from it? And then try not to do that again right now. I think you and I have this in common Tony.

We both have quite a bit of confidence just naturally within us. Like we were just confident people. That's part of how God has designed us. And so. I'm not sure for us unless less you're going to say something I'm surprised about but our narrative I think is easier for us to move through than other people when it comes to failure because I naturally think well yeah I messed that up but next time I'll get it.

You know I'll figure this out and I'll do better next time. Yeah. I tend to land in the camp. Where did that go wrong? Like like it takes me a while and this is just part of my character defects. It takes me a while to see that I failed because I'm so confident that I can bring it back. Yeah. And sometimes like in the army they used to talk about this all the time that you want to put a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

Right. And so the idea is is that sometimes we give a wound that's not going to come back too much attention. And I think that that's part of one of the things that happens when when I'm working with somebody and the relationship is not moving in the direction of intentionality. I either need to like let it go or I need to to be sure to make sure that I move or you know I just call it for what it is right?

Like you gotta be able to identify the failure. So part of the part of my ego is that I always think I can say. The relationship. I always think like and so when something does fail like six months seems like a long time to realize that someone's not coming along. Right. You know but you know but here we are.

So I think that part of the thing for me is that I typically and because I'm a verbal processor I typically need to go and talk to another disciple maker. Usually you about man where did I mess this up? Yeah. Right. And so having an outside perspective after the failure allows me to see the picture with eyes that I don't normally have.

Yeah no that's really good. And the importance of having other disciple makers around us that we can bounce those things off. isn't going to keep us from failure but it can keep our failure loop shorter. Right. Yeah. And so and not only keep them shorter but have a little bit more clarity on what happened and how can we not end up in that same place again next time.

Yeah man Tony Tony let me share with you and everybody else a failure that that still bothers me to this day. I was discipling a guy for about six months maybe eight months and it was going okay. but he wasn't terribly faithful. sometimes he would show up and not be prepared. Other times he would cancel me at the last minute.

and we would reschedule. I was frustrated at that point in my life. I was not as graceful as I am now and still need to grow in that. But so I had a conversation with him and basically said Hey you know why don't you do this? And after you do it just let me know and we'll get back together.

And he said okay Tony I'm still waiting. that was that was the last conversation I had with him. and I still feel so bad about that because I I did not care about him enough. Right. So I was willing I was willing and perfectly comfortable that point in my life to say oh well he's not coming back.

He's not coming. I'm not going to chase the guy forever. instead of honoring him and the relationship that we had up to that point and having a more robust conversation around Hey maybe this isn't a fit. Hey at least getting together and getting lunch just to communicate the care that I have for him or should have had is probably a better way to say it.

but I learned some some valuable lessons there. One about. The importance of caring in disciple-making regardless of how they're responding. And another is the importance of keeping the door open to have the ball in my court. Right. So I could have said that same thing but then I could I should have said Hey but if I don't hear from you in a month or something I'm going to I'm going to give you a call or I'm going to get together you know something like that.

But that one that one still bothers me. Well and I get that right. Like when you feel like you had it and it just slipped out of your hands like cause you know we you and I especially are goal-driven guys. And so when we see a goal and we set a goal we want to hit the goal. And the goal for me is always spiritual reproduction.

Right. And so sometimes one of the. One of the lies that I have to beat back in my own head. Right. If we're just being really honest is that I want to rush the process. And so sometimes I have a perceived failure when what I really have is just a failure in patients. And I think that's pretty important too.

Right. It's Hey be cognizant that if the person is still engaging if the person is still. Doing the homework if they're still showing up but they're still doing the work that Hey maybe this is God's timeline and not your timeline. And so so don't chalk it up as a failure just yet especially if you can get a little dramatic like I can and just acknowledge that that Hey if they're still if they're still signs of life God's working.

Yeah no that's really good. And I some of that just occurred to me too is that You know not only have I had disciple-making failures I was a failure for somebody else it was trying to disciple me. And so sometimes and as I as I think back to that experience he did a lot of things. Right. and yet it didn't go well and it I don't know what he thinks about.

I I have no idea where he is today. but if if I was talking to him I would say to him Hey man you did a lot of things. Right. but it was. I was the reason it didn't didn't work. And sometimes that's just the reality but yet a year later a year and a half later I was discipled by somebody else. And I was.

in a place with God that was totally different. And so as a result I was totally different. And so sometimes selection or what's happening in the person is the biggest determiner of whether it's going to go well or whether it's not regardless of skill or experience of the disciple maker. I love it.

I love it. And I hope this very uplifting and positive episode on failing is as much a gift to you as it is to us to just be reminded of it because and here's the takeaway for today's episode. Failing is part of discipling. Failing is part of discipling fail learn and then make the choice to grow the action step.

It's simple but not easy. As it often is reflect on what you've learned in your failures apply them to present relationships today reflect on what you've learned in your failures and apply them to present relationships today as always it's an absolute joy to be on this mission with you. Hey do us a favor.

Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts leave us a rating or review on iTunes or Spotify. Spotify now has reviews. It would go a long way in helping share what God is doing on this platform. And Hey maybe even share this episode with a friend maybe somebody who's failed recently and just needs a little pick me up.

They're not alone. You aren't alone. Thank you guys so much. We look forward to connecting soon.