14. Practitioner's Podcast: The Difference Between Accountability and Disciple Making

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Episode one just came out today. It was straight Fire. You can learn more navigators church ministries.org. Man. I'm excited for today's episode. Justin, why don't you tell us what it's all about? Yeah, absolutely. So today we're talking about the difference between accountability and disciple making, and this is continuing.

If you've been on this journey of season three with us, you know that we are about bringing clarity of disciple making to you and trying to make it as clear as possible. And one of the ways that we're doing that is just by talking about things that are kind of close or are related to disciple making.

And that sometimes they're honestly confused with disciple making. And so this episode is perfect for anyone who's con, been confused or perhaps has some confusion about the difference between accountability and disciple making. So let's just start out with a bit of a history around accountability. And this is.

What I'm about to share with you, is a history in the US here. and then Tony's gonna share some broader, deeper history for us. but accountability partners in America were pretty well culturally introduced as a weight loss concept in the 1960s. And it really kind of gained ground and popularity in the Christian culture, here in America in the 1990s around promise, keep.

 that mostly men's, I think might have been exclusively a men's ministry, but in 1993, professor Howard Hendrix, a lot of you might know that name. Gave a speech at a conference and he said, this, a man not in an accountable relationship is a moral accident waiting to happen. And so from there in the 1990s, 1993, that was spoken, accountability, relationships, accountability partners, really expanded into the churches and became kind of a really common.

Of the way that people did life and did faith together. And so you can see how, from there, how it could be easily, confused or, or bleeds into the concept of disciple making. So, that's kind of some of the background, some of the context that we wanted to lay for you. and if we think about the historic church, Justin, I think that there's some interesting takeaways when it comes to accountability.

Now, some of you know that I am part of the Wesleyan tradition and otherwise called the Holiness Movement, and a part of the Holiness movement was very similar to what you're talking about with Promise Keepers trying to get people in intentional groups for the sake of holding them accountable in their walk with the Lord.

Now, in the Wesleyan tradition, in some Methodist churches, even still today, There's something called a band meeting, A B A N D band meeting where people gather together and they confess since John Wesley, the founder. Wait, wait, wait. The band meeting's not like The Beatles, not like that sort of thing.

Well, there's nothing cooler than saying I'm in a band, but it's not that kind of band answer. . Oh, oh, oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Um. So , you know, the, the best part about that joke is I u usually the one to make it. And I just love the fact that you, you belted in with that. so yeah, so John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, he said that everyone needs to be in these same gendered accountability groups called bands, right?

And so it's a part, it's a tool. In our walk with the Lord, he would say that it's part of the discipleship kind of pathway that you're, you start out in a class meeting, which would be like today's version of a small group. Then you go to a band meeting, which is like today's version of accountability groups, and then you go to worship and disciple making from there on and so forth.

Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of the more historic, broader picture of accountability groups, at least in the Holiness movement in the historic. . Yeah. That's so helpful. So in today's church, today's world, modern world, nineties forward, accountability is and should be a part of disciple making, right? So accountability is helping somebody meet the goals that they've intended to, to do, right?

They set goals and then they should carry them out. They should obey, be obedient. They should apply and be faithful to the things that they've said that they will. And providing accountability is really just a piece of saying, Hey, how'd it go? Did you do it? That is helpful. Accountability within a disciple making relationship.

Then when we talk about accountability partners, I had one of those oh, couple decades ago, even in, and here's how it went, and it was pretty typical of what typically happens with accountability partners is you have a set of the exact same. And you go through those questions time after time, week after week, and they're good questions.

Things like, how many times did you read the Bible this week? How have you shared Christ with others this week? you know, if you have a goal around exercise, it might be, did you exercise, you know, three times this week or whatever it is, and you ask those questions to the accountability. The person that you're holding accountable, they ask them to.

And it moves forward in that way. disciple making is different than that. Okay, so we're gonna share with you three ways that disciple making is different from accountability and, and much like these other episodes that we've done on the differences. Please hear us. We are in no way saying that accountability is bad or wrong, or we need to avoid it.

We're just trying to create that clarity for you and that it is, it is different than than end disciple making is. So the first way Disciple making is different from accountability. Disciple making is focused on becoming. Accountability is focused on behaving. Okay? And we almost, we hear that in Howard Hendricks quote, right?

A man not in an accountable relationship is a moral accident waiting to happen. And so it's like, well, if you're not in this accountable relationship, you're not gonna behave, you're not gonna do what you ought to do. And in disciple making, we aren't focused, exclusively or as the main. On behavior. We are more focused on becoming now, becoming AL'S behavior, right?

We can't become like Jesus if we're not acting like Jesus, but at the same time, we could externally act like Jesus and still not become like Jesus. And so we're not looking only at the outward, we're also looking at the inward because in disciple making, we believe that the inward comes. What's in here will come out in your behavior, your responses, your reactions.

And so that's the goal, the overarching goal of disciple making. And I think of Luke six 40, where Jesus says, A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. And so that's the picture that in disciple making, we are seeking to become just like Jesus.

That's a great point, Justin. The second point in disciple making, which makes it different than accountability, is the natural hierarchy of the relationship. So in disciple making, the Discipler leads, they show up intentionally to take the conversation somewhere very similar to a dance, right? Both people are equally important in the dance.

They partner together in the dance, but one person has to lead in disciple making relationships. What we see is that the discipler is the one who's leading the conversation with intentionality, building the relationship with intentionality, and has a vision of where they're going. I think we see this in scripture the way.

Timothy and Paul have a relationship, right. Paul calls Timothy my spiritual son in the faith, right? First and second Timothy are basically Paul's intentional vision for Timothy's life in ministry. And so in accountability relationships, what we see are something very different. Like you said, there's kind of a, a set standard group of questions.

People are, are partnering together for a desired, conversational outcome. Life transformation outcome like disciple making is so accountability. Both people are showing up. Both people are important, but no one has to be in charge because the conversation is really the whole reason why they're there.

They're there to have that accountability conversation in disciple making. I want to disciple someone to be like Jesus and hopefully take them to a place where they've never been before. So there's a little bit of intentional difference and, and I just want to drill down on one particular piece. The piece is this vision cuz in disciple making, I have a vision that the person I'm discipling will go and do the.

Right, the same way that Jesus did in Matthew 28. That vision is the driving factor in an accountability group. We're not talking about, a vision where someone, there's no like grand vision there where someone's gonna live without sin. Instead, it's very different. People are gonna just trying to sin less or not keep doing the same sin over and over again.

That's the difference in accountability versus disciple making. So again, pay attention. To your relationships and the hierarchical order of them. Are you going somewhere or are you just coming together to just talk through something? Both are important, but one is disciple making the other's not. . Yeah, that's excellent.

So, so far we've been through the first two, right? The first difference is disciple making is focused on becoming, but accountability is focused on behaving. Second one, Tony just talked about disciple making. in disciple making the discipler leads the disciple maker leads, but in accountability, nobody really leads.

You're kind of just doing it together, by asking those questions and holding each other accountable to those things. So the third thing, Is, and this leads in really well with what you ended with Tony, about vision. the third one is disciple making must have a measurable kingdom outcome. Mm, that's good.

But accountability may not. And so another way to think about it is disciple making will multiply. Accountability will not multiply if it's, if it's strict accountability. there's nothing built into that system, built into that relationship that necessitates or aims at multiplication. And so that, for me is a huge difference.

Again, accountability is helpful for some things, but if we are trying to multiply our lives, if we're trying to fulfill the great commission, the vehicle of accountability does not lead towards. And so, but disciple making does disciple making. If you are in a disciple making relationship and you don't have vision or you're not moving towards reproduction, replication, multiplication, you're really not doing what Jesus did and you're not fulfilling the great commission.

And so that even though it comes last in our three, for me might be the biggest one that I feel like, wow, we cannot miss that. You guys might remember a conversation that we had, a couple episodes ago about this idea of about coaching. For me, this falls into a very similar vein when we think about coaching and disciple making versus accountability in disciple making.

I can hold someone accountable apart from Jesus. You know, I, I, I have done that before. I, I've got a group of sixth graders who I coach and I hold them accountable to the expectations we've set for each other as a team. Like how many free throws they're gonna shoot, all these things. Like, you can have a really great relationship with someone based in accountability that is fun and it's good and it's decent, but it's not the same as building the kingdom of God.

And so I think one of the good litmus tests that we can give ourselves when we think about the relat. That we're in and whether or not they're disciple making is, am I pushing someone to reproduce in the image of Jesus, right? Mm-hmm. , is that the end game? Is that the fruit? Is that the, the kingdom outcome?

And I think that greater purpose really is like, if you're not gonna hear anything else, when you think about the relationships that you're in, think about that. Will they reproduce in the image of Jesus when we're done? If the answer is yes, then you've got disciple making. If the answer is no, you probably have something else.

Yeah, that's really good because what that question does, Tony, is it frames the growth that we are trying to get, right? Because most Christians in what they're doing, whether it's being in a mentoring relationship or an accountability relationship, their desire is to grow. But oftentimes they don't know why they don't have a direction for that growth.

It's just growth almost for growth's sake. But that question of am I moving. Multiplication. Am I moving towards fulfilling the commission and the mission that God has given me in life? It really frames the reason for that growth. Well, I'm not just growing for myself. I'm not just growing so that others can look at me and perhaps say, oh, you know, I know he follows Jesus.

And so yeah, maybe I need to be like that. Maybe that'll help me. No, we are growing so that we will be a tool in the hands of the father that is able to be used in many, many different contexts and with increasing effectiveness. And that effectiveness needs to be kind of contextualized into this idea of discipling others and making disciples of those who currently are not.

 love that point. Tony. Tony, let me ask you this question. What has been your experience in being in an accountability relationship? Like have you ever been in kind of that pure accountability relationship outside of a disciple making context? . Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I have been in a relationship with another pastor and we have a, what's called a band meeting.

I mentioned it earlier, this kind of Wesleyan tradition of accountability. And the way it works is we get together, we go through a list of questions, historic questions that John Wesley came together, but you can kind of boil them all down to one question, which is, what sins have you committed in your life?

And, and, and that's what we do. We get together and we confess. We're peers. We love each other. It's a safe place for us. It's a way to make sure that we, we do our best to, to kind of repent from sin. It's a, it's a place where we come to repent and I look at it as a tool in my walk with the Lord. So it's not disciple making, it's not, it's not even my counselor.

I have a counselor. It's not that this is just a, a, a pure confession of sin and, and. He knows what questions to ask me. If I'm waiting into sinful places, BEC, and here's why this is important. I know that if I'm sinning, I'm less effective as a disciple maker. If I'm actively living in sin, I'm less effective as a pastor, as a husband, as a father, right?

So accountability groups are, are important as a tool to make sure that you are as effective as you can. In your other relationships. I'll also say this, you can have accountability in disciple making. You can frame it up together. They're not, they don't have to be mutually exclusive. They can be together.

In this particular case, they're exclusive, but you can have both in one relationship. But again, the intentional intentionality of the two relationships are the same. Does that make. . Yeah, that's really good. So one of the things I heard you say though, and just a couple episodes ago we talked about obedience and the importance of obedience is that accountability can be a useful tool in aiding our obedience, right?

Our personal rubber meets the road sort of obedience in our life, and that's really important and. Again, this, this is somewhat challenging sometimes to talk about because what we don't want you to hear is that accountability is over here and disciple making is over here, and never should they come together because we're not saying that.

Right. We are saying that one is primary. Right? So the, the primary, relationship, the primary way that we should be relating to others as disciples and disciple makers is in this disciple making relationship. But within that, there should be accountability happening, right? We should be asking about things that they have said they're going to do, right?

We should be asking if they have sin in their life that they have not yet confessed, they have not yet repented of if they're struggling against it. We should have those things as a part of our disciple making relationships, but we feel the need to talk about it because sometimes. We had others have taken this piece of disciple making outside of the disciple making relationship, and then termed it disciple making, and it becomes incomplete and it doesn't lead us towards what we are trying to be and do when we talk about Jesus style, disciple making and applying that to our everyday.

The reality is friends, is that when we fail to be crystal clear about disciple making, it's very easy. It's so common for everything to kind of get lumped into that. And the next thing you know, you're not really making disciples. You're doing a lot of good things, but you're not making disciples. And what our goal is always is to help.

Make Jesus style disciples, right? And, and this is kind of the Jesus style disciple making model that, that Justin and I see in scripture. And we want to help you see it in scripture as well. And, and we're just super thankful to be on this journey with each and every one of you. So let me give you our takeaway and action step today.

The takeaway is accountability and disciple making are not the same. I know that was really revolutionary, but let me say it again. Accountability and disciple making are not the same. The action step. Well, we've kind of hinted at it. I've said it out, right? Take some time this week and evaluate your disciple making relationships.

Ask the question, am I making disciples or just doing accountability? Am I making disciples or just doing accountability? Friends, we're so thankful for you and to be on this journey with each and every one of you. Hey, do us a favor. Hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. That way you don't miss any of our future episodes or bonus episodes coming up.

And, leave us a rating or review iTunes or Spotify and then share this episode with a friend, maybe somebody who you are discipling. It's a great way to bring clarity and and we hope it's a tool in your conversation as you make disciples who will make disciples.