3. Practitioner's Podcast: The Disciple Maker's Loop

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Good morning, Justin. Good morning, Tony. We're back. We're back. Justin, tell everybody who this episode is for, because I'm really excited about this one. I wanna jump right in. Yeah, absolutely. So this episode is perfect for those of you who are looking for a tool to help you stay focused and disciple making.

So in way I think about is like a pocket SW, pocket size tool, pocket size guide. That's really helpful, not just for the disciple maker, but also for the discipl. I love that. I think before we get into the tool itself, maybe it would be helpful if we took some time to define, , what a tool is in Jesus style, disciple making, and how we define that and how it's a little bit different than program.

Driven disciple making. Do you wanna talk about that for a minute? Yeah, sure. So we actually have done an episode, or maybe two on tools in the past. But this season we're gonna be looking at a fuel, a few specific tools, , to help us in disciple making. And the way we define a tool is tools are an extension of ourselves that help us accomplish a job or a task or a goal.

And so in disciple making, they're an extension of us, they're not, , They're distinguished from curricul or content in that the tool is not doing the work. The tool is helping us to do the work, and it comes out of us from us, right? An extension of us. So tools are really helpful when we know them and use them and share them.

Yeah. One of the things I tell people when I'm talking about disciple making or if I'm talking to someone I'm discipling, is that disciple making always needs to be intentional, relational, and reproducible. Mm. And a good tool usually helps with intentionality and reproducibility. So a tool is something that you can give to anyone and they can use it.

And a tool is also brings a certain amount of intentionality. To a particular, , meeting. So if I'm meeting with someone and we're talking about, , how to stay focused in disciple making, I'll you use the tool that we're gonna talk about. . Yeah. Yeah. And another thing that's super important about tools just to understand is that, , they're contextual, right?

So if you think about tools you use, , around the house and the kitchen and the garage, wherever you're using a tool, they're applied for a specific purpose and they do some things really well, and then other things they're not very good for. And so, , disciple making tools are like that. So let's jump in then, Tony, unless you, you have something.

You may. Well, I was gonna say that, that this season we're gonna be intentional about calling out tools a little bit more on the podcast. Yeah. That was part of some of our pre-planning. Yep. , and if so, if you are like, Man, I want more tools, the best way to make sure that you don't miss a tool is to take a moment right now and hit that subscribe button where every listen to podcasts and make sure, you know these episodes coming at every other week, this season.

And so there will be a section of them that will all be tool based and you don't wanna miss. Wherever you list a podcasts. Yeah. Awesome. So today's tool is called the Disciple Maker's Loop. The Disciple Maker's Loop. And this is, again, a tool to help us stay focused in disciple making. And I want you to picture a circle in your mind.

And again, you can click in the show notes and see an image of this. And it really talks us through a circular process that we go through. As disciple makers, we go through it with those that we disciple. And I'm gonna run through the six steps that we go through over and over and over again with disciples.

And then we'll zoom in and look at each step a little more closely. , so the first step is teach 'em what? So we're gonna teach 'em what? Second one. Tell 'em why. Third one, Show 'em how. Fourth one, get 'em started. Fifth one, keep him going. And the sixth one, help him pass it on. So that's the loop, right?

I'm gonna say it quick now. Teach 'em what? Tell 'em why. Show 'em how. Get 'em started. Keep 'em going. Help him pass it on. Tony, let's start looking at each one of those, , kind of zooming in for us. Yeah. , and also full disclosure, we, we use the word him because Justin and I only disciple guys one on one, so it can be him or her, whatever, , pronoun you prefer on all that jazz.

So teach him what, So the first step is to teach him about the idea of. Of why we're doing this. The most common kind of ground of disciple making, , to teach him about prayer, right? How do we do it? What does it mean? What's it look like? Teaching is important to the process. And I said prayer, but it could really be about anything you're gonna teach him.

The main idea I think about, , second Timothy, Timothy three 16, that all scripture is God breath and useful for teaching rebuking and correcting in Christ Jesus. So when we think. Teaching. What we think about is I'm showing up as the disciple maker to a meeting, right? And I'm gonna be prepared to present some biblically based idea.

Now I'm, I'm gonna teach 'em what we're doing. I'm gonna teach 'em what the main point is. I'm gonna teach 'em what the goal is here. And so that's that very first step in the disciple maker's loop, where I'm gonna teach him what so, A great example if I was gonna teach about the disciple maker's loop, I would say what we're doing here is we're showing you a tool for when you go to disciple someone else.

This is the idea we're gonna teach. And then we're gonna go into step two, which is this. Yeah. So nber two is tell 'em why. Right. And tell, why don't we just go through prayer? You mentioned it. We can just roll with that. So, okay. , so the, what if you're teaching the, what you'd be talking about, what is prayer?

Right. And in disciple making, you can, , grade that or make that different levels depending on the person that you're working with or the couple people that you're working with. Are you talking about. Prayer 1 0 1, prayer 2 0 1 grad school, sort of prayer, you know, the sort of prayer that, , is a mystery to all of us.

So this is what you're thinking about prior to going into the meeting. , the second one then is tell 'em why. So after they understand what prayer is, they need to know why it's important, right? Why does a disciple, , need to. And the why helps disciples build conviction and motivation, , towards whatever it is your teaching.

And so the why, you're most often going to address the why through the scriptures and through personal testimony. So I pray not just because the scripture says it's important, not only because Jesus did it and modeled it in his life. I need to have a personal testimony to put flesh on that and say, Well, yeah, it's not just talking about it.

In the Bible, it actually has relevance and meaning in my life, and here's the reason why I pray. So the why is both of those things, Again, it's typically scripture and personal testimony, and what that why does is it builds inter conviction and motivation, which leads us to the third step in the loop.

The third step is the one that I like the most because I like, I'm so relational anyway. I like to show 'em how. Right? So that's the third step. So the first step, , Teach 'em. Teach her. Tell him, tell her. Show him. Show her. Right? So I'm gonna show how. So if we think about the prayer model, this would actually be praying with them.

Praying with them through something. Now, this is also a place where if you think about the disciple maker's loop as a tool, this is a tool within a tool, right? So if I'm gonna show them how to do it, I may. Like, , a tool to help show exactly how to do it. Like the, if we stay with that prayer, the AX acronym, right?

Adoration Confession, Thanksgiving supplication. I may present that tool as I show him how, Right? Think about it like this. If you're building a house, you need a saw, but one of the things that help you with a saw is a square, right? So that you can cut straight lines. It's a tool. Within a tool. So when I show him how I'm going to, to model exactly what I'm talking about, right?

One of the age old expressions you've heard on this podcast before is more is caught than taught. This is the caught, right? This is the opportunity to actually pray together. And so one of the other things that, you know, we are constantly modeling kind of what we expect from the people that we're pouring into, and that's how we show them.

So it, you know, if you want someone to do it well, you have to show them first, even if you think they know how to do it. This shows your willingness to step into the next step with them. Right? So I'm not just modeling for modeling sake. I'm modeling because we're on the same team. We're moving in the loop together.

We're part of, , we're part of this process together. That's awesome. Yeah. One of the things I love about that, how too is the modeling, like you just said, Tony, it's personal, right? There's, there's an incarnation element to it. There's a relationship element to it. It's not just information, It's, it's life on life, right?

Yeah. And so that's right. That leads us in to the four step. , so we've told him, taught him. Tell him why, Show him how, and now we're getting him started. So the goal is not just at the head, the goal is not just at the heart. The goal is getting people moving and doing these things because we believe that transformation doesn't just follow information.

Transformation is a result of information application. So this is where we start to move into application. With the one that we're discipling. And so really think of this as a goal setting step with that person. You're discipling and it should be done cooperatively or collaboratively. Mm-hmm. . And so that's good.

What works best isn't just saying, Okay, I now you understand why it's so important and you know what to do and I've shown you how to do it. And so I want you to start praying an hour every day and we'll check back in a week. Right? That's not gonna work for you. So what you need to do is, Questions and ask things like, Hey, what does the current reality of, of prayer look like for you?

You know, And, and listen. Are they praying at all? Are they just praying before meals or just before bed? , and then you can ask questions of, Well, what would it look like for you to take that next step in prayer? And if they have thoughts and and opinions about that, that's great. You can help move those into things that help them develop.

If they don't, you might need to ask or suggest some things like, Hey, do you think you could pray for five minutes a day, at least three or four times this week? And some of them might say, Well, yeah, I think I could do that. Others might say, Wow, I don't know. , maybe just two minutes. Okay, well we can start with that.

Others might say, Well, I think I could do even longer than that. Great. But the important thing here in getting them started, Is collaboratively using questions from where they are now to that next step so that they can get long term to a mature, , prayer life that has some depth and meaning for them.

And so again, getting them started collaborative conversation using at, , questions to ask, , and setting those goals for. Next one. Yeah. I think one of the things that's important to note about that is that when you get them started, what you're doing is you're transferring the loop from your loop to their loop.

Right? So you're transferring the ownership to their goal. Mm-hmm. , which is why the next step, the fifth step, is really important. And the fifth step sounds simple, but it requires intentionality from the disciple maker. And it's, it's keep 'em going, right? And so you're gonna get somebody started on a discipline that's hopefully transformational.

But in order to get to transformation, you have to do it multiple times, right? You can't just pray twice and then all of a sudden feel like you got it under, under wraps, right? Like it takes a lifetime. That's why disciple making is a a long and intentional, messy process. And so that means that as we start somebody off on this new tool that we're using, whether that's prayer.

Scripture reading or really anything, you've gotta be the person that intentionally reaches out to see how they're doing. Right? We don't want to give up on the discipline because we think they've got it, you know? and then move on. What we wanna do is make sure that we're doing constant check backs.

We're asking how the Lord is showing up in the practices that we've said into motion through the disciple maker's loop. We wanna make sure that we're being super intentional, like months of intentionality of doing it, cuz what we don't want. Right. We don't want to introduce a, a discipline and then let it just fall to the wayside.

I see this happen a lot with scripture memorization, is that somebody will memorize a scripture and then we'll never talk about it again, and then when you need it, it's not there because we, we stop flexing that muscle. Mm-hmm. . So whether that's prayer or scripture, or scripture, memorization. All of those tools fit into the disciples maker's loop.

And step nber five is the difference between short-term, , usage and long-term understanding. And so keep 'em going is really about long-term understanding. And as the disciple maker, you may need to set something on your phone, on your calendar, on your notes as it pertains to the person you're pouring into to.

Hey, I need to check in on Justin and how he's doing on prayer. Right? And, and some of the ways to do that too, to be efficient about it is just make, make notes in your calendar for future meetings so that you don't forget it. Because if you're anything like me, you'll introduce something, you'll get excited that they got it, and then you're onto the next topic and you're not keeping it going.

Yeah. Anything to add to that, Justin? Yeah. Well that's so important because this is a step that keeps us in check as far as. Helping us stay aligned, that we're not just educating people here. The goal is transformation. And so what we tend to do is teach, and once they understand, we move on and never come back.

But like you're saying, it's that long term application that we're after because that's what's going to drive that transformation in them. , so now we're onto our nber six. The last part of the loop, help him pass it on. And this is, again, another one that a lot of people miss because we're so focused on the person across from us that sometimes we miss the people that they're going to impact.

And so one of the, one of the reasons this is in the loop is because from very early on, from the beginning of the times that you're discipling this person, you want to establish a pattern. And a rhythm of the things that they learn with you. They're going out and giving it to somebody else. Learn something, get something, go pass it on to somebody else.

And so even as I'm teaching a tool like the Disciple Maker's Loop or the Wheel or some other ones, once they have it at a conceptual level, I'm asking them, Okay, well who can you share this with in the next. So they are not only setting themselves up for their own transformation, but they're setting themselves up for who they're going to impact and disciple in the future.

And a lot of times it's those people that they're regularly giving things to anyway, as I'm discipling them, that they start to think, Well, maybe I could disciple that person. because those people are becoming really interested in growing from the things that they're already getting from the things they've been passed, right?

So helping them pass it on. So it's those six steps in the disciple maker's loop. Tony, we have a few minutes left. Can you, I wanna hear from you, , how this tool has impacted you, and then maybe we can look at from a church perspective, , which aspects of the loop. The church is traditionally strong on, and which one the church is traditionally, , a little weaker in.

Yeah. So I, I think one of the important things about the tool for me is because, , I'm so relational, I don't oftentimes have a roadmap on what I'm going to do with whatever I'm presenting in the disciple making meeting. Right. So like, Early on in my journey with disciple making, I was always really good about teaching because I teach a lot.

I love to teach, I love to talk, obviously. , and so one of the things that I would do is I would show up and I would teach some content, and then I would just give it to them, and then that was it. So I was giving information without application. The Disciple Maker's Loop, what it really does for me is it forces me.

To be intentional in the application part of my disciple making, right? So it's not enough to just do step one, but 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and now all of a sudden I've gone from being the teacher to, by the time we get to step six, being the student, right? So step six, help 'em pass it on. Well, now what's happening is they're passing it on and then they're coming back to tell me about it.

Or I'll even ask them. Teach it to me when they get back. Right? So like that's, that's another way to kind of close the loop and go through the whole thing. And as somebody who lacks intentionality, in most part of my disciple making, this is just like a, , kind of a, a go-to tool. Honestly, I need to use it more than I do because oftentimes I'll just get distracted, right?

Like, if you get me in scripture long enough, I'll get distracted by the why, or I'll, you know, and I, I'll forget that it's more than information, It's application over time that leads to transformation. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. Right? And for those who kind of lean a little more relationally, , this is the type of tool that really will help keep you focused.

And it helps keep the disciple focused too, as far as like, okay, this is what we're doing. So there's not that you name these out when you're moving through them, but. They feel that things are on track and are moving forward just as you move through the loop, , in your meeting together. Tony, when you think about the church, , which aspects of the disciple maker's loop is the church traditionally really good at, and which ones are the church not so good at?

Ooh, that's a good question. I, I would say that the, the church is traditionally pretty good at nber one, right? We're really good at teaching. Right. Teaching her, we're really good about teaching them what's important, why it's important. I would say that we're not good at , five and six, right? So the vision of reproduction is rough.

So I would say that we're pretty good at one and two. , we're not great about three because we don't think about it that much. Right. And then, , four, five and six really struggles. So the first half of the loop where I can monologue something to a group of people Yeah. That's traditional Sunday school.

Yeah. Right. Like, I mean, that's the, that's the Sunday school that I grew up with. Yep. Right. And, and have seen in lots of churches. Let me tell you about what I learned and why it's important. Yeah. And that's it. But. We don't often go to that next part, which is get 'em started, keep 'em going, Pass it on, right?

Yep. And that's why I believe preaching will never be sufficient on its own to make disciples. Right? It's a piece of the puzzle, but it, it doesn't work to make disciples only through preaching because we miss that life on life. Show 'em how. We miss the life on life. Getting 'em started. Life on life, keeping 'em going and the passing it on normally just doesn't happen because they haven't done it themselves.

And so the disciple maker's loop again, it really, really helps us. It's one of those tools that we can go back to and no matter where the person or people are that you're discipling. The Disciple Maker's Loop is a helpful tool to know what to do and, and how to do, , with those people that you're working with.

Tony, would you walk us through, , just the takeaway and our action step? Sure. And before I do that, just as a reminder in the show notes is a link to, , a visual image of the Disciple Maker's Loop. So check that out. The takeaway for today is The Disciple Maker's Loop is a pocket size guide that helps you stay focused.

On intentional Jesus style, Disciple making. The disciple making loop is a pocket size guide to help you stay focused in disciple making the action step. Come on guys. You knew this one even before I said it. Memorize the loop and teach it to two people. Memorize the loop, teach it to two people. Let us know.

We'd love to hear your feedback. You can reach out to us on any of the links below the show notes. Super thankful for each and every one of you. Make sure you hit that subscribe button. Ulous in the podcast. Leave a rating, a review on iTunes or Spotify, and the highest compliment you can give us. Share this episode with a friend.

Maybe somebody who you know, wants to be a better disciple maker, wants to be intentional. They need it. We need it. Thank you guys so much, and we'll talk to you real soon.