Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Practitioners Podcast where we're applying Jesus style disciple making to everyday life.  This episode and all of our episodes are powered by Navigators Church Ministries.  For more information or to get connected go to navigatorschurchministries. org.  Justin I have a million dollar question for you.

 

Oh wow. All right. I need a million dollars.  Well I may have to make it in 1 payments for the rest of my life. But here's the question. Here's the question.  We use the term in our podcast Jesus style disciple making. And as I was preparing for today's episode I really began to wonder what is Or where did the def the phrase Jesus style disciple making come from?

 

Yeah  that's a good question. I don't I don't even know the etymology of it. I know that I first heard it and was around it through discipleship. org and the guys down there the leaders down there  that's part of what we are about as. Disciple making community there  and then just started thinking more about it and you and I've talked lots about it.

 

 but yeah where did that?  I don't know where the phrase originated but we're going to talk today about the history of what exactly is disciple making Jesus style right? So we're going to unpack it at least.  Yeah. And I think it's really important to spend some time  unpacking Jesus style disciple making because I think Justin and I would both suggest that Jesus came to earth at a very specific time.

 

Time for a very specific purpose. And what's interesting is that when we begin to look at the history of  Jesus's. Educational model and the time that he was on earth it meant something very specific. We're going to get into that today. We're going to get into a lot of that kind of discussion today.

 

And what we know for a fact is that Jesus's life is our model. Jesus's life is our model. Luke 640 says it like this. A servant is not above his master but everyone who is fully trained will be like his master. So Justin what is Jesus style disciple making or disciple making even in general?  Yeah so that's the question right?

 

So in our culture we have a lot of ideas about What is disciple making? There's a lot of definitions out there. We've talked about this in the past on the podcast There's this idea that disciple making can be as broad as doing deliberate good to help someone follow Christ So that is super broad right?

 

You could pray for somebody and say yeah I'm discipling them you know based on that definition  Is it you know something that only God can do as? Some people believe we can't. Some people would say well you can't make a disciple. God's the one that makes disciples. Is it everything the church does as some pastors believe?

 

And I've been told by that. And you know there's all these definitions floating around. And here's the problem. The problem is if disciple making is  So loose or so ill defined that any of these definitions are acceptable then we have nowhere to anchor. There's nowhere to anchor into to really have a reliable trustworthy source.

 

of what disciple making is and that's why we need this episode why we're we're gonna have another episode along this line as well is we have to figure out well what was disciple making in Jesus day and time? Because it was something. You know He wouldn't have had and they wouldn't have been able to have in His culture all these definitions of what disciple making was floating around.

 

Because everyone would have been like well of course that's not what it is. We know what it is because it's a thing here in our culture. And so as we move into this episode we're really going to uncover and look at some of the history of disciple making. And begin to look at where did it come from so that we can move out of that and know what it is and what principles we need to define it here in our day and time.

 

Yeah. One of the things that  that Justin I've heard you say before is that the context we grow in is the context we go in and want others to go grow in. Let me say that again. The context we grow in is the context we go in and want others to grow in. Said another way it would be like this right? How we're raised will impact how we raise others and raise up future generations.

 

So when we think about disciple making the more defined that we can get early on the more clear we can get about the picture of Jesus's historical understanding of disciple making. The more we'll be able to root and found our own disciple making practices in that same way. And it's interesting right?

 

Because the word disciple is used 269 times. In the gospel and and in the gospels and in the book of Acts 269 times what does that tell you? It's it was widespread. Like it wasn't just Jesus's idea. This is something that would have been super familiar as Justin said earlier to everybody around and it really matters.

 

Now the thing is is you've heard us talk about this before too is that we often look at the words of Jesus without looking at the practices of Jesus. And so the practices here I believe really matter. It's very intentional it's relational it's reproducible it's personal it's sacrificial it's missional right?

 

It's all of those things kind of put together to really force the idea of what Jesus style disciplemaking is today and how it's based. On the very specific time that Jesus was around. Yeah that's absolutely right. So let's hop into some of the information. This is an information heavy episode of the podcast here.

 

But here's some of the information that we know about disciple making in the ancient world. Okay first of all it wasn't Jesus's idea right? Historically the word is first seen in a Greek historian's writing named Herodotus. Which really was about 500 years before Jesus was on the earth. It was also used by Socrates as he discipled Plato it was used by Pythagoras.

 

So this isn't just a a Jewish thing it's not just a Jesus thing. This is something that was around long before Jesus was even part of the earth. Now you might you might have heard right if you've studied Greek at all or if you've studied Disciple the the most common  definition simple definitions out there.

 

You might have heard is disciple is a learner right? So that literally means learner in the Greek and you know that's helpful in some ways but in other ways it's not quite specific enough right? Because are we talking about someone who is a student? That's a type of learner. Are we talking about apprenticeship that is focused on a skill but it's different than student which is focused on knowledge right?

 

So what exactly do we mean when we say learner? Learner it's not enough. Okay let's go back to first century  Judaism and in that culture the culture that Jesus was born into here's what we know. We know that every Jewish boy and every Jewish girl was sent to a Jewish school and it began there are three levels of the school system.

 

The first school system was Sefer. which literally means house of the book where the students would learn to read and write they would do basic math they would memorize the first five books of the Torah and so our nearest equivalent would be elementary school.  but in their elementary school the the text or the  the curricul was the first five books of what we know now as the Old Testament.

 

Here's how this would begin. If you were a student you would be walking to school you would get to school you'd be greeted at the door by one of the most respected men in the city.  And he would greet you with a slate and he would put a dollop of honey on that slate and then he would unroll the scroll of the Torah and as you sat in awe the rabbi would have you taste that honey and would quote Psalm 19.

 

And he would tell you that the Torah is sweeter than honey.  Now can you imagine the impact that this would have on a little boy or a little girl 5 or 6 years old? And the motivation that it might provide of wow I need to figure out what is this it's sweeter than honey. I want some of that. And so this first level of schooling the house of the book the Bates Zephyr was for  school kids between the ages of 6 and 12 years old.

 

And at 12 most of them would graduate into adulthood and be done with their formal schooling. The girls would take their place in the households. The boys would take their place  either as an apprentice in a trade  or doing the family business whatever that happens to be. And so that's kind of the first level of what it is in Judaism  for the school.

 

Yeah. What's so interesting about that is that it's very intentional right? Remember the words that we think about when it's the true disciple making right? It's intentional. It's relational. Now it's not quite to the place where it's reproducible although it could be if you ever became the well respected rabbi.

 

So it's a it's a really interesting idea. And kind of premise but more than anything it was a social construct. Now one of the guys who I know has talked about this a lot as a guy that   that I have a ton of respect for John Mark Comer in practicing the way he talks a lot about though I'll put a link to his  kind of PDF in the show notes but he uses really modern day language.

 

To talk about this idea.  And what's interesting is that if we think about Christian education we tend to as Americans think about a Sunday school model come sit listen right instead of come listen be. And that little slight shift is huge when it comes to reproducibility. Yep exactly. Right. And so the next level after that first level of schooling  the best students.

 

Would be invited to the next level and that next level is called the Beit Talmud.  literally it means the house of learning. So ages roughly 12 to 15 it was deeper scriptural study instead of just the first five books of the Torah. It was the entire Torah the entire Old Testament as we know about it.

 

And they were working to memorize the whole thing. But the work wasn't just to memorize it. It was also to understand it and to respond to questions. And they were taught to answer questions with questions. Instead of with answers as we typically do in the West. And so when you see Jesus doing that repeatedly in the scriptures of people ask them questions and he often most often responds with questions.

 

Well this was part of the typical way that Jewish people  especially people who have become rabbis would respond to questions and that would reflect their learning. Okay. And towards the end of their teenage years. The best of the best of the best of the best. would be invited to the rabbis or by the rabbis rather to the next level of training.

 

Now this next level was so hard to get into. There would be an interview. You would be interrogated on what the Torah said and the different interpretations. And it started around 15   this next level. And the next level would often continue until they were even as old as 30 years old.  Now the students at this level were known as  Talmid or the Talmidim and this is the Hebrew word for disciple and there's a difference here because what changed at this level of learning from the last level is this level of learning they were  not just working on their minds and what they understood they were working on becoming just like their rabbi.

 

And so it wasn't just to know what he know it wasn't just to be able to say what he said. They would be following him around in order to be just like him. They would want to walk like he walked. They would want to eat the way he ate. They would want to sleep how he slept. All day every day the goal of the Talmudim.

 

was to follow the rabbi in order to become just like the rabbi.  Now there's a well known blessing at this time for the Talmudim and the blessing was this may you be covered in the dust of your rabbi. And I think of it kind of like a A two year old around the house right? People are listening that have had or do have two year olds.

 

Those two they're following you everywhere. If you're going to do something they're going to do something. Even when you go into the bathroom they want to be in the bathroom with you. They want to follow you everywhere right? The goal of the Talmudim was to become a carbon copy of the rabbi.  Now the Talmudim would be so serious about this that they would be waiting and hoping and dreaming for the end of their training.

 

And in Jewish culture the end of their training was marked by a moment where the rabbi would turn to the Talmudim would turn to one of them and would say something like this would say as far as it is possible you are now like me.  Now go and seek others who will imitate you because when they imitate you they will be imitating me because you are like me.

 

And do you hear the notes of the Great Commission in that?  And so I really believe and Tony you and I have talked about this that what Jesus did with his disciples was this process. He was  not only training disciples they were Talmudim they were one in the same. And when he looked at them in Matthew 28 and gave them those words Go and make disciples of all nations right?

 

He was essentially saying to them you are ready for this. And they wouldn't have been surprised because this was something that they had signed up for at the beginning. And so again imagine somebody saying to Jesus's Talmud Hey what is disciple making? They would not have five different answers ten different answers twelve different answers.

 

They would say well this is what we're doing. This is what we're about. We're trying to become just like Jesus not just in what we know but in every possible way. We want to become Just like him. So these three levels right of schooling that's what disciple making was in Jesus's day.  One of the things that I really appreciate about this style of disciple making is that it runs strictly up against the tension of the North American church.

 

Right. So when we think about our churches what do we continually try to do? We continually try to be inclusive of everyone instead of what we see in this Jewish Jesus style disciple making the Jewish education system which is exclusionary. And so when we go to churches today one of the things that happens over and over again is we want to be inclusive inclusive inclusive yet.

 

What Jesus illustrates for us is a much more intentional process of looking for someone who's faithful available and teachable right? And so it's it's  the serving training line is another way to think about it is that Jesus didn't try to train everyone. He tried to serve as many as possible and train the few.

 

Imagine what would happen in our churches if we made that one little shift. I'm going to serve as many people as possible. I'm going to give them what I've got but I'm going to train. I'm going to spend the majority of my time. Training people the same way that Jesus did I think it would change the way we think about the church and imagine how it would change the work of the pastors that you know the pastors that we know Justin if we said Hey we want you to spend 80 percent of your time pouring in to a handful of men or women who are clearly going to move the kingdom forward that would be revolutionary to the church and something I long for.

 

Yeah I know that both of us long for that Tony because this way of looking at disciple making it anchors us and it roots us into something right? We cannot say that disciple making is just praying for people or just being hospitable to people right? Or any other narrow focus ministry. In fact we can't even say that we're discipling someone if they don't know that we're discipling them.

 

Right? That is not consistent with Jesus style disciple making. They would have thought that was ridiculous. That what how how in the world is am I trying to be like the rabbis? How could that be my big focus? The sole focus that I have in life really? If I don't even know that I'm being trained right?

 

And so what this what this definition and really this history does is it roots us into something out of which we can pull principles that can apply for disciple making today. And it helps us again it helps helps us and protects us really from making disciple making anything and everything which conversely ends up degrading it to really nothing.

 

Well guys we're going to leave you right there. This is part one of a two part episode. Make sure you hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts. Let me give you the takeaway. Jesus style disciple making matters because his style is to be our style. Jesus style disciple making matters because his style is to be our style.

 

The action step discuss with the person that you're in a disciple making relationship with. Do you engage Jesus as a true disciple would? Do you disciple others like Jesus would  friends? I'm so thankful to be on this journey with you. Thankful for our time together today and so much gratitude for the way that you share the podcast all over the internet.

 

So thankful for you guys. And we can't wait to come back with part two. Thanks.