Making a disciple is about passing your relationship with God onto another.

Everybody welcome back to the practitioner news podcasts, where we focus on Jesus style disciple-making in everyday life. This episode is brought to you by navigators church ministries, which focuses on helping churches, make disciples who can make disciples for more information, check out their website.

www.navigatorschurchministries.org. Justin, how you doing today, man? Hey, doing great, Tony, how are you doing? I'm good. I'm good. We're a couple episodes in, we're starting to get our feet underneath us if you're, if you're listening today because you subscribe, uh, we just really appreciate you and love having you be a part of our, uh, our practitioners family.

Absolutely. Tony. We need to have some small talk today at the front. So I got some feedback from him. Okay. And she said a couple episodes. I was a little, you know, we just got into a little too fast, so we'll bit of small talk here. Right. So do you think, uh, our lack of smalltalk is because we're a so passionate about disciple-making or B, because we both just like to get down.

Yeah. I think let's go with C both. Okay. All right. Deal. And I mean, another, I really dislike small talk in general. Right. And so, but I know it's important or some story back there in my history on that, but, um, so I feel like we've warmed it up a little bit now. So what w what are we talking about today?

Actually, I'm gonna tell you. Well, we're talking about today. Tell me I'm going to tell you. So we're going to talk about the disciplines of a disciple. So in the past, so far in our episodes, we've been talking about disciple making and that's been the heaviest part of our focus so far today. I want us to look at what does it mean to be a disciple and specifically, how do disciplines relate to being a disciple?

And I think in our. Our podcast moving forward. And in general, as we've talked about what we're trying to do, we want to focus on three different things. Generally, the first is what it means to be a disciple and things that might be helpful towards. Second, how do we make disciples? And what's helpful towards being a disciple maker.

And third, how do we, um, help pastors and church leaders develop cultures of disciple-making and some things that might be helpful around that. So today we have to get into being a disciple. We haven't done it yet, and it's super important. So could you start us off and just share with us a little bit about some of the thoughts you've been kind of crafting and developing lately around.

What it means to be a disciple in the disciplines of a disciple? Well, one of the things that I say a lot over on the reclamation podcast is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distractions. And, and one of the things that I found to be true in almost every circumstance is that disciplines when best served, act as guard rails for your life.

Tell me more about that? Like the guard rail idea, what do we, what are we guarding from? Where are we trying to stay on? Yeah. So I think the best way to talk about it is this idea that I've been wrestling with lately. Well cracks the canyons. Okay. And it's the idea via that prolonged stress, stress, similar to what we're experiencing.

COVID but we've all experienced prolonged stress prior to COVID. If you think about like job change for me, military deployment is really where I first saw it. I basically think the toddler years of parenting every year, you're in that right now. Right? Still in it. Prolonged stress leads the cracks.

Canyon and a crack is a stress point. It's a stress point that you find in your life it's anywhere in your life and it can be relational. It can be work-related, it can be emotional. It can be spiritual. Sometimes it can be physical. Even when I had knee surgery a year ago, like that was a big part of that.

Um, that was a, that was a crack in my life. Now. Here's what happens to stress points under stress points under prolonged stress. Can blow up to a canyon. So we take something that we can normally step over, like a crack. We take something that we can normally just ignore, like a crack. We put it under prolonged stress.

And now all of a sudden, well, you could die in a canyon, right? You could fall in, you could get lost. And so guard rails, good disciplines. Keep us from falling in the canyons of our life. Boy, I liked that. I love the visual of that. Because, you know, living in Ohio, we have cracks and we have winter, right.

And then the streets, the cracks get bigger over the winter and you can almost see it happening if you travel certain roads regularly and as the water gets in there and then there's freezing and it expands it out more. Yeah. I almost pictured that as, as, um, you know, as you were talking that it's like water of stress or whatever it is getting into that crack and then busting it out.

And so now it's bigger, right? The stress could go away, but the effects of that stress are still there. Not only are they still there, but now, uh, God gives us a redemptive quality, right? So once we, um, blow up the cracks into canyons, once we, we find the ginormous potholes of our lives, then what happens is, is now we get the gift to go in and explore them.

Right. And that is a redemptive gift from him. That we can go in and begin to explore the canyons, explore the potholes and good disciplines are the tools that we use for that. Okay. So tell me more about the exploration, because part of me wants to say, well, I don't, I don't necessarily want to explore them.

I want to be like the road worker that comes and like fills them in and takes them. But, but I think you've tell me just more about what it, what do you mean by exploring that? Well, so the truth is, is that, um, the stress points in our life, the cracks that turn into canyon, Are generally part of our, our life that we've tried to ignore.

So when we talk about disciplines, one of the disciplines that is my favorite is reading scripture on a regular basis, right? So oftentimes when I'm aware of the deficiencies in my life, that canyons in my life, and then I take those deficiencies to God in scripture, something amazing happens and the holy spirit begins to repair the foundation.

Of the deficiencies in my life or in my canyon, so to speak. And there's a really big church word that we use for this, which is sanctification is a big one big one, right? But sanctification is the idea that every day, yay, I'm going to put down less of me and pick up more of Christ because we believe that at the core, when we rebuild our foundations, what happens is we build that foundation on Christ in a healthy way.

If our disciplines. Right. There have been plenty of seasons where my disciplines haven't been good and I've rebuilt kind of a, as scripture says the foundation on the sand and eventually it just falls apart again, which is also why, if you've ever been in Ohio during winter patches never work. Right.

Because a quick patch doesn't solve the foundational issues of the day. Discipline. Yeah. Yeah. And so what I hear you saying is sanctification is a process. The holy spirit, helping us with those cracks, but not necessarily helping us fix them in the sense that they're not there anymore. We don't have them, but in the sense of all right, locking arms, here's what it is.

Let's figure out how that impacts you today, how that impacts your relationships. Not only with God, but also with other people and, and over time then. What would you say, um, where do I end this at? Uh, it becomes, it's not, uh, the, the crack isn't the problem. The crack is something that has helped us understand more about who we are, um, who we are as a sinner before God, our need for him, uh, in our life today, but also, you know, in a salvation sort of way that we need him.

Right. And he's not coming around like a road warrior. Fixing all the cracks or in life works and looks perfect. That's not the goal, right? Well, one of the ways that I like to say it is that, um, the more familiar you become with your canyons, the less scary they become. Um, and so the Kenyans never go.

Right. And the wounds of my, my past, the brokenness, even, even if we think about this generationally, right. And this is where it gets really exciting. If I think about generational brokenness, even just in my family, my ability to surrender those to Christ, never, it doesn't change my family history. Right.

It doesn't make them go. It just makes them less scary. Yeah. Instead of operating out of my canyon, now I'm operating out of the word of God, out of my prayer life, out of my godly friendships, out of the things in my life that are, um, uh, the disciplines that Christ calls us to. And this is the beautiful part, is that when we're brave enough to be disciplined in Christ, there's a freedom that comes with that, that we can never get on a.

Hmm. Hmm. I love that idea. And the idea of freedom for me is one, that's always been super motivating as I look at what Jesus offers us, right. Because I have, in my past, just had so much, um, self imprisonment and a lot of ways because of, you know, sin issues in my life. Um, cracks. It had turned into canyons cause I, I didn't know what to do and they're getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

And you know, in, in reality for me, my, my world kept getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and then Jesus comes along and says, well, come follow me. And I, I will bring you freedom. I will show you out of this. Right. And so, wow. I love, I just love the imagery of that. Right? The cracks canyons. I think we can all relate to.

Especially in winter time. Most of us, unless you're in a really warm climate, um, we can see it happening in our world. Racks get bigger. And so Tony, can you talk to me a little bit about some, maybe your disciplines. How those relate to this idea of cracks and canyons and how they impact your life. So, one of the books that we had to read in seminary was called emotionally healthy spiritually by Peter.

And I'm going to say his name, wrong scar stairs though. Yes. Cause arrow. And, um, in there there's an activity that we did that was pretty transformative for me and it was called the rule of life. Okay. And so basically for me, I hate being told what. And you you've experienced that in our relationship and you do too.

Uh, and so, um, one of the challenges is if you tell me that I can't do something, that's a sure-fire way to get me to do it. Right. And I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who are like, yeah, I'm the same way. Yep. So what I needed is, and what I got from this text was that if I created a rule of life, where if I stayed in these bounds, in other words, if I did these disciplines, I could do whatever.

Okay. Right. So here are some of mine from my rule of life. Um, I need to read scripture every day, right? I'm 24 hours away from. From being disconnected to God. And I generally feel that way about myself all the time. Okay. So that's part of it. I need to get to the gym three to five times a week. I need to make sure that I date my wife at least once a month.

I need to date my kids at least once a quarter, you know, and I'm not allowed to work more than, um, three nights a week because okay. Because work for me, even though it's, uh, is something that I love to do can become almost addictive. Schedule myself so that I have to work all the time. And, and that really costs me something in the end.

Yeah. So I've found that if I'm staying, uh, obedient to these disciplines, I get a lot of freedom in my life. Actually, I can do pretty much whatever I want. Hm. I like that. So, so the disciplines kind of frame in, or like you said, guard rails, right. And as long as you have those gone and then it keeps you in a healthy place and it keeps you growing.

Oh, I think if we go back to that Kenyans idea, right. The disciplines prevent us from falling in, um, unprepared. Into the canyon, because the truth is, is we want to get into the canyons. We just want to do it in the safest way possible. I'd be interested. What are some of your disciplines? What are some of the things that, that you've been trained in?

Yeah, so for me, as a, as a young disciple, um, the person who was discipling me kind of exposed me to this idea of seven basics and the seven basics you're familiar. Some of you might be familiar with the wheel illustration. Uh, which we will cover in a future episode at some point, so best way not to miss it is to subscribe.

Um, and if you think about the wheel, um, and we'll link it in the show notes too, but, um, there's seven things in there. Uh, they're not all explicit. So the center of the wheel is, is Jesus. And so really the gospel, um, I believe, and this is a Jerry Bridges, uh, idea initially. I need to remind myself of the gospel every day.

Yeah, that's good. Because when I do that, it keeps me from thinking too highly of myself. I remind myself and I am a sinner saved by grace. Um, and so I, don't not only am I a center, but I'm also valuable to God. And so it keeps me from getting too high and it also keeps me from getting too low. Oh, that's good.

Okay. So, so the gospels, the first one, and that's always first cause it's our foundation in Christ, but after that, these other ones are in no particular order. Um, but thinking around the spokes of the wheel. So we have prayer, right? How important that is. We have witnessing, sharing our faith with others fellowship.

So having relationships with other believers, being engaged in a church in some way. Um, and so then the other ones that we haven't named. Are all within the word spoke or the Bible. And so the first of those is quiet times, right? So a daily devotional time where we're getting into the word. Um, and you know, we talked about that on a previous episode, of course, right?

With the job 2312, I'm not departed from the commands of his lips. I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread. So we have that right. The other two with. Is scripture memory. And so taking the word in and having it become a part of us and Bible study. Now, normally Tony, in our Christian culture in America, most people engage in quiet times, relatively fewer, relatively few, rather engage in Bible study and even fewer engage in scripture memory, uh, what I've found in my own life and with others that I've worked with and discipled is.

Um, one of those three, uh, disciples really grab onto. And so for me, it's been scripture memory. And so in my devotional life, um, it runs through really my scripture memory life. Okay. And so I have quiet time. Sometimes I study the Bible, uh, intentionally and in depth at times. But for me it's been scripture memory that really helps me dig deep.

And as I'm going through my day, You know, I'm interacting with the, with the spirit over those verses that I've committed to memory. That makes sense for me, I think I'm more of a quiet time kind of guy. Uh, and, and I'm always challenged by scripture memory and I appreciate that challenge, um, and continue an area of my life, where I continue to lean into.

Right. Um, what happens to your life when you're living out those seven basics? Well, yeah, so for me, when I'm living them out with. Uh, I am engaging Christ well, and I'm, I'm opening my life up. So all those seven, uh, really help. And really, I kind of reduce it down to the four spokes of the wheel. Right? So prayer, the word, witnessing fellowship, if I'm doing all those things and it keeps me kind of intention, uh, with God, uh, in a very healthy.

And so I have to trust him and move out in faith. As I'm sharing with others. I have my personal time with him where I'm in prayer and engaging the scriptures. And he is communicating with me around things in my life. Right. And then engaging with other believers through church and friendships, um, really helps encourage me, uh, and I can share the, the struggles that I'm having with friends and in depth, uh, fellowship with.

And so I think similar to the guard rails idea, right? That it kind of keeps me in line with who I want to be and who God is asking me to become. And I think that's really important, right? It's important for us as a disciple also important as disciple makers. Right? If I'm one of the definitions we talked about previously is making a disciple is about passing your relationship with God onto it.

And all these things we're talking about, you know, the rule of life that you mentioned, the seven basics that I've mentioned, there are things that we can pass on, right. And talk about. And the truth is, is that that the disciplines, uh, prevent us from remaking God in our own image. Right. That's, that's a part of it.

It's a part of keeping ourself and our heart in the right space. And just like on the road, or just like, if we think about this, we can't live on the guardrails. You can't live in the disciplines. You still, you still have to have that personal relationship with Jesus. If we look at disciplines just as a task, it ends up becoming.

You know, not ideal in following Jesus so that it has to be relational with Jesus and kind of to use the wheel illustration if Jesus is at the center. Right. And all the spokes are working the way they're supposed to work. If we think about it like a bike or a car, you don't ever see the spokes. Right.

You just see the center. Yeah. And so we know that we're living a good life when we're centered on Christ. And the spokes are moving in the background the way they're supposed to be. Right? Yeah. That's awesome. Tony. I know we're getting short on time. I want to ask you this question though. What happens on a day when you don't want to do the disciplines?

When, when the rules of life, you know, those things you talked about, you just don't feel like. Um, so I've gotten to a place now where I typically do them anyway, and I just suck it up. Uh, you know what I mean? I, I do it anyway in the hopes that, uh, God will use my, even my heart and heart, so to speak and then I'll just show up anyway.

But if I, if I miss it, um, well, I mean, if I'm honest, sometimes later in the day is when I feel the most I'll feel a little incomplete or, um, Uh, you know, my other rule is just, don't miss two days in a row. Okay. Yeah, yeah. For me, I try to engage him anyway. Um, but for me, if it's a few days in a row where I just feel like that.

Yeah. Then for me, it's a time to reevaluate and reassess. I need to bring some freshness somehow to what I'm doing. Um, but it's important to me too, to recognize that the discipline. I'm not worshiping or following the disciplines. Right. I'm worshiping and following God. And so if they're getting in the way of my connection with God, then I need to adjust them in some way.

Right. But there are other times when it's just my flesh being lazy and that's where discipline is needed. Right. Right. I think of, um, I think it's Hebrews 12, 11, no, discipline seems pleasant at the time, but. Later on, however, produce a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

So when we're pursuing something, a lot of times, there'll be times when it just doesn't feel great. Right. And, and yet, if we submit ourselves to what God's asking us to do, to engaging with scripture to prayer, that there will be a harvest of righteousness and peace that comes. And I think that's, you know, coming back to that illustration of cracks in Canada, That's what that is, right?

Is that there's a harvest of righteousness and peace, because like you said, it gives you freedom to do whatever it is that you want to do. Um, as you're moving through those guardrails. So, um, Tony lead us out of this episode, kind of hitting this takeaway or action step, a big takeaway for this episode.

Is a simple, but not easy, right? Trying to, to follow Jesus without disciplines will certainly lead to disaster. And the action step where we want to challenge you this week is to engage and develop your disciplines, right? Maybe one of the seven basics that we talked about, maybe one of your rule of life, you know, and anything there that you can lean into to get a little uncomfortable.

And maybe in that discomfort, you'll find comfort in Jesus in ways that you never have before. That's our hope and our prayer. And we're so thankful for all of you who took the time to listen today, please do us a favor, leave a rating or review on iTunes. It really does help people find the podcast. And also, if you can share this episode with a friend, let's get the word out about what God is doing through all of you and the practitioners podcast. .