21. Practitioner's Podcast: 4 False Beliefs Consumerism Has Taught Disciple Makers

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the practitioners podcast where we're applying Jesus style disciple-making to everyday life this episode and all of our episodes are powered by navigators church ministries which focuses on helping churches make disciple. Who can make disciples for more information or to get connected?

Check out navigators church ministries.org. Good morning Justin. Good morning Tony. How's it going today? Fan tastic. Have I got a great random question of the day for you? All right. All right. We are coming to the end of what can only be described as a historic season for our beloved Cincinnati Bengals.

So in honor of who day that's right in honor of this incredible season. Let me ask you who is your favorite historic bangle historic meaning can't be of this year of all time. Oh wow. Okay. I'm torn between two. so I'm going to name them both because that's just how I feel today. So the first would be James Brooke.

running back classic. Yeah. Yeah. I mean just to catch it out of the backfield shifty main was amazing. The other one Chad Johnson because of all the fun that he brought to football and to the city about you I'm going to go with Carl. why can't I his last name just Carl Pickens who threw the long bow I who caught the long bomb all the time.

And because you went with two I'm going with two I'm also going to go with Anthony Munoz the only bangle hall of Famer offensive lineman little random fact. I got to meet him in the Los Angeles airport. He's a he's a devout Christian and a really great. That's awesome. All right. I'm not sure about Carl though.

You forgot his last name. I'm not sure what it is. Well well there's a reason why I forgot his last name. I had a nickname for him but that's not important. We're not going to go into it. What we are going to go into today is our final episode on consumerism in disciple-making for the last several weeks.

If you've joined us. Then you know that we've been diving into the impact of consumer Summa prism and what it means on disciple makers. One of the things that I thought was really cool is a quote that you used in one of your blogs by Paul Mazer back in 1927 it says we must shift America from a needs to a desires culture.

People must be trained to want new things man desire. Must overshadow his needs. And what I appreciate about that particular quote is the idea that it's time for us to be intentional about shifting our thinking. And I really think that's what this series has been all about. Justin why don't you take us into this week's topic and maybe give us a little recap on what we've talked about.

So. Yeah absolutely. and I would say that shift has been made right as you think about what that quote saying that we have shifted from a needs-based cultures to a desire space culture where man's desires people's desires overshadow what they need. And that's kind of like you said that's the journey we've been on over the past a few episodes.

we looked at how satisfaction can be purchased in the first step. So that's one of the tenants when the core tenants of consumerism the second core tenant is that purchasing power is found in systems. And so that makes money elevates money to have lots of. Right in those systems third tenant we can pursue satisfaction and security and systems and those are demanding our identity.

and today we are moving forward into what Tony and I would would propose to you are for. Really false beliefs that consumerism has taught disciple makers. And so these four false beliefs are things that as you raise up the intent of what those are and kind of look for them you can see them all over the church and all over even disciple-making efforts in the church.

And so Tony let's just start kind of going down through these and I kind of all name them and then you and I can can talk about. Okay. So the first one is consumerism has taught disciple makers that we can disciple without incarnation. So let me say that again. We believe if we have bought into these lies we believe that we can disciple somebody without incarnation.

What do you think of that? Well I think it's an important topic to dive into because the incarnation is the person part of the whole process right? Is that this is another way to say it is to like we we can do this. Without the relationship. Right. And the relationship is for me it's paramount. It's why I do it.

It's why I love it so much. Right. The incarnation as we talk about a reference to Jesus coming in the flesh and Jesus being with the people. And I think that that's a very important idea that we need to live into. And if we believe that we can do it without the incarnation then what ends up happening is curriculum becomes king.

Absolutely. Yeah. So incarnation right. This idea of being with right relationships and what we see all over is curriculum has become king right? Because it's not as important who you are or. What you know it's the curriculum you introduce into the dynamic that seems to drive a lot of disciple-making in our culture today.

And so it gives kind of the appearance of discipling the appearance of loving others but it doesn't require relational risk or even relational skill. Right. And I think that's sad because as disciple makers and we are not being stretched to become people who really love others Who really take the time to be with them to understand what what's happening in their life and to respond with with skill with scripture around what what those challenges are that that they have.

Right. And so instead we're introducing curriculum and leaning very very heavily sometimes exclusively on the curriculum to do the. Yeah their comments on that one for you. The second one Tony. No I I mean I just think it's really important that if you can't sit down with someone and talk to them about Jesus one-on-one relationally then you've become indoctrinated with the lie.

If you think that you need something more than just the Jesus that you're holding onto in your heart then then I would challenge you to check your beliefs. Yeah good. And again we've covered this before. There's nothing wrong with curriculum. Okay. So don't don't hear saying that it's the place of it in this discipling relationship.

That's really key. second second lie is we believe that we can disciple people without intention without intentionality. and so that lie is essentially saying well Hey we've never been to seminary. Most of us we don't. We don't believe that we have what it takes to disciple others. And so what we can offer is friendship.

And so that's that's all that people need is just love them. the way that you would love a friend Tony what do you think if we think about the other side of the disciple-making scale right. If the incarnation is the relational side then this is the intentional side and. The relegation of disciple-making to church staff or to people who are trained professionally is so outside of what we see in scripture that it's almost laughable right?

Because Jesus intentionally presumably very chose people who were very common right. And then he gave them tools in order to to accomplish the mission that he laid out before them. And that's really what we're talking about when we talk. This kind of disciple-making is that it's not about you know it's it's not about your qualifications as a disciple maker you're qualified because you're a follower of Christ.

So be intentional and how you equip and train and everything else will come to fruition. Yeah. Yeah. When we disciple or attempt to disciple without intention then what we're really doing is we're just being friends and we we lack vision. For the discipling relationship. We're not trying to help them become anything.

We're just trying to help them be comfortable. Right. And so that tension in disciple-making. If if if that's not there. Spending time together. Hey that's a great thing to do but it's really not disciple-making right. And so there needs to be some intention to help somebody become not just help them become comfortable or stay comfortable.

And so a first lie we believe that we can disciple somebody without incarnation. Second lies. We believe we can disciple somebody without intention. Third lie Tony that that we kind of if we absorb a lot of consumerism and applied into our discipling what we're going to do is we're going to believe this.

The third one believed that we can disciple people without application. Since we bought into the lie that satisfaction can be purchased. We become unfamiliar with choosing what's difficult. And so we are satisfied with new information and new understanding and we believe that that is what leads us to to change and to transformation.

And so we no longer have to do the hard work of application. Well for me this is the Ted talk theory you know and I know a ton of people who love to listen to Ted talks and you probably listened to a couple of there's some great Ted talks out there but here's the thing. A Ted talk is very rarely changed my life you know?

And and and there's that rubber hits the road kind of moment that's required for transformational change. You know one of my favorite Justin Gravitt quotes. Information plus application leads to transformation. And I think that that's kind of this this root idea right? And and and the consumerism lie.

The problem is all we do is consume and we don't ever change. And I you know you only have to look at new year's resolutions which were not too far removed from to know that that's the truth for most. north Americans. Yeah. Yeah. And I know in my own life there have been periods where I have been content just with learning.

Right. Because it feels like it's growth. And so that's one of the dangers I think of learning and scripture talks about it and saying knowledge puffs up but love builds up right. That knowledge has this danger side to it of diluting it. And making us think that we're actually moving forward in some way when really we're not we're just spinning our wheels and maybe moving backwards because we're believing something is occurring that actually isn't occurring.

And so when we disciple in a way that that that eliminates or moves around application the result is we will have disciples who look and act just like they do. Before we started discipling them. Right. And we're making our discipling efforts and the relationship and the power that it should have.

And we're kind of stripping it of all of that and making it just a shell of itself. if we are trying to disciple without application. All right our last one here a fourth lie that we can believe. If we believe consumerism we will do it is we believe that we can disciple people without intrusion without intrusion.

And so here's why this is consumers need to be challenged to move beyond their assumptions. 'cause one of the things that consumerism is taught us is to relate to each other safely to be polite right. To not ask a lot of questions. If somebody says oh I'm not going to be able to make it. And they're their friend it's not just somebody.

Right. And they're a friend of yours I'll oftentimes instead of pressing in and saying well okay. Yeah well what's going on? We just kind of nod and take the cue of oh I guess they don't want to tell. Right. And then we do that same thing and discipling. Then then the myth out on on what God has asked us to be there to do in discipling them.

Tony what's your thoughts on this one? Yeah for me this goes back to the Lordship printer. And as a disciple maker one of my key responsibilities is to help the person I'm discipling make Jesus Lord of their life. Right. Well a Lord has has say it has oversight. It has. You know kind of Providence. And so that's uncomfortable in our north American culture especially our consumeristic culture because everything in our world is designed to make our lives easier.

But guess what? Following Jesus isn't about making our lives easier. And so we've got to break past. that comfortable barrier and get to the uncomfortable spaces so that we can grow with Christ in that application kind of way. Right. And this is for me this is kind of a partnership with the application part because what we're really talking about is getting through old routines old habits and even old.

I'm going to say this politeness for the effort of. Yeah no that's absolutely right. I know that some of those who have invested in my life you know they've pressed in. Right. And so they didn't just ask the question. Well how how's your quiet time has been going? Oh yeah they're going fine. You know they they move in a little further.

Whoa what are you reading? Oh well you know I'm in I'm in Hebrews. Okay. And then they'll continue to press in until I have learned what they're actually asking. They're asking to share what God has been teaching me what he's been telling me in those times because the goal of the time is not just to sit and to read something in scripture.

The goal is to reflect and relate with God over what it is that I'm reading and to have that. Impact my life in such a way that I am thinking in a new way and moving in a new way acting in a new way. And a lot of times it is that intrusion that continued moving in that helps us get to a place like you said of application.

I do think that these are connected for sure. And it's just super important. Right. So yeah I'll say I'll say this real quick funny funny story about your and I's relationship. This is something that you do pretty well. You're you're very quick. I'm gonna say quick but like you're very intentional about holding people accountable.

And so when you and I first started meeting together that was one of the things that took me awhile. Through right. If as a pastor it's not uncommon for me to cancel meetings. Pastors do this a lot. When I was pastoring a local church this happened a lot. And and no one ever questions it because.

You're doing pastoral things. Right. And you know fine whatever. Right. But man I'll never forget the first time he said well where are you going? And I was like excuse me sir.

And and so when we think about these when we think about all the lies of consumerism you just have to know that you're you're battling culture. And what you think and the culture that you've experienced. So you have to battle the lies that are already planted inside of you. Right? And so somewhere inside of me there was a lie that says it's rude for Justin to ask why I'm canceling our meeting.

And it wasn't until I was able to reframe it and say It's appropriate for Justin to ask because he cares about what I say I care about you know and and and it takes a while to get to that shift. So if you're battling the lies I just want to encourage you give yourself more time and and just just know that it it's a process.

Yeah no I love that. Yeah because it is like all of us as we live in this consumeristic culture we are all pushing back. Some of these lies that are moving in on. And there they're moving in on us whether we are aware of it or not whether we are moving in directions we shouldn't be are not just being immersed in this culture has an impact upon us.

And so as disciple makers as followers of Christ we have to be vigilant and not only watching our own lives but watching out for one another and helping people to move into and live into the. All right let me let me wrap this up Tony. So we have I mean Sam again the four lies that we have highlighted today that four false beliefs four lies that consumerism is teaching disciple makers first it's we believe that we can disciple without incarnation.

Second we believe that we can disciple without intention. Third we believe that we can disciple people without application. And finally we believe that we can disciple people without intrusion our takeaway today. Tony can you give us our takeaway and action step? Yeah the takeaway is the culture of consumerism will seep into your disciple-making and we must push it back.

The culture of consumerism will seep into your disciple-making and we must push it back. The action step is a way to push it back. Take the time to reflect on how you're discipling on how and how you've been discipled. How do you think the core tenants of consumerism have effected your disciple? How do you think the core tenants of consumerism have affected your disciple-making great Tony thank you.

We hope that this series has been helpful for you. We know it's been a bit of a longer road than what we typically do on the podcast but we thought it was worth it because these themes and these forces are so big in our culture that they are impacting us. Next episode we're going to shift to we're moving away from consumerism.

We finished that series up and we're have a really fun episode for you guys. Next time. It's the failure episode. So Tony and I are going to be sharing different ways that we have failed in disciple-making. And yeah it might be a couple hours long right? I mean we have a lot that we could talk about but make sure you hit that subscribe button hit the like and the share button get this word out to others because we are really having a good time engaging with you guys.

And we hope that you're having a good time engaging with us as we communicate about these different trues. And disciple-making we're really excited for next episode. We'll see you guys real soon.