Hey everybody welcome back to the practitioners podcast where we're applying Jesus style disciple making to everyday life. This episode and all of our episodes are powered by Navigators Church Ministries. For more information or to get connected go to NavigatorsChurchMinistries. org. Today's episode is part one of a two part series on finding someone to disciple.
And it comes from our dear friend Darcy in Hamilton Ontario. She shot in a message and it was a great idea to dive into this topic. And so before we even jp into today's topic I just want to let you know that if. If if you have an idea for what we should cover in the podcast shoot us an email the links in the show notes.
We would love to hear from you and love to create some episodes around what you need to hear. Cause at the end of the day we all grow stronger when we lean into our weaknesses and make disciples who can make disciples. All right Justin so jp into today's part one of our two part episode finding someone to disciple.
Okay so today's episode is all around this idea of how do you find someone to disciple? And what Tony and I hear over and over and over again as we're in churches and teaching about disciple making in different places doing workshops is the churches are asking us they're saying Hey we have all these people that need discipled and we don't have enough disciple makers.
And so we spend a lot of time a lot of effort a lot of energy helping different churches create disciple makers. And at the same time as those disciple makers are being created over time a question comes to us right? And it's not just who do I disciple? It's a question of like well I can't find anyone to disciple.
And so the question that that I struggle with. And especially when Darcy sent this in I was thinking well where exactly is the shortage right? Because we have sometimes we have churches saying we have too many disciples and not enough disciple makers. And then we have disciple makers coming to us and saying we can't find anyone to disciple.
And so where's the shortage but how do you find someone to disciple if you're already a disciple maker? And I think that's going to unlock. A little more perspective on what exactly is going on in that tension where both sides are kind of like Not connecting to the other side. Yeah one of the things that's really interesting is that it's often hard to find someone to disciple because in our minds We have a series of objections that are already there.
For example I was talking to a disciple maker and I said well surely there has to be someone in your church to disciple and they said Well there's a bunch of people who've been there for a really long time and they're the older saints of the church and man I just don't think I could ask them And yet on the other hand I've talked to another guy who was about disciple making and he said well I was going to go reach out and talk to this young family but they seem so busy.
I just don't want to interfere in their life. And so what ends up happening is we create a whole lot of reasons on why we think we can't make disciples who can make disciples. But what I think we're going to suggest today is that it might be a little bit deeper than that. Our hangup around finding someone to pour into is more than just our our objections of their one's too old or one's too young.
I think it has more to do with genuine relationships. Justin why don't you tell us a little bit more about that? Yeah I think a lot of times when we are thinking about who to disciple especially as a young disciple maker or somebody who maybe is even trying this for the first time there's a lot around it right?
There's a lot of internal barriers and obstacles around like Oh okay well who am I going to ask? And you know we we play in our minds what that conversation is going to be like and there's some fear around it some fear of rejection some fear of like them. The other person thinking that they're that you are saying well their their relationship with God is not good enough or that yours is way better.
And so there's all these things but then we we get down to a place where we're like okay well I got like one or two people that I would feel comfortable asking. and so then we just move in that direction. or we. And we have reasons why those one or two people aren't a good fit. And when we do that then we get to a place where we ask well I can't find anyone.
How do I find someone then? And the lack of genuine relationships is if we don't have a comfortable relationship with different types of people people who are at different places in their walk with Jesus then it's harder and harder to know who we can disciple. And when we have that inability to consider through an intentional lens then it can become a real roadblock for us.
And it can actually stop us from moving forward in disciple making. And that's one of the reasons why having a conviction around disciple making that that you are called to make disciples no matter what is one of the things that can propel us through this tension or this roadblock. But there's another tool that You know we've referenced on the podcast before.
We've probably even talked about it before but we want to take time in this episode to really unpack it so that we can understand how do we use it. And this tool that I'm talking about is just an acronym and it's a FAT acronym F A T. And it's it's what I call the irreducible trivirate of selection.
That is a big word. Trivirate? Is that what you said? Yeah. Yeah. You like it? Praise the Lord. I like it. What's it mean? It makes me think of trpets. I don't know why but the trivirate. So the three things that we cannot get less than these three when we're thinking about how to select someone we could get we could add more things but if you take away any of these three things it's not going to work.
Your disciple making relationship will not work. And so let's just walk through those together. yeah. And we can. As we walk through what I want us to do is think about okay Well how do we apply this then in our disciple making selection? All right so i'm going to jp in and start with the f the f is faithful now as I jp into the F I want to start with a story right?
There was a time in my life when I was discipling someone and they weren't actually really going to church. And what I was really doing is I was going to lunch with them on a regular basis. And so it was intentional. It was really relational in the sense of like Hey I'm there to meet with them. I'm there to.
Build that structure. I'm there to help them push them closer to Christ. But the reality is is they weren't in a faithful spot right? They weren't going to church. They weren't reading scripture. They weren't doing some of the things that we would call some of the core tenants of our faith. And so while they they professed that they believed in Jesus they weren't faithful yet.
in their actions. And so this is why the F is so important is that you can't disciple someone who's not ready to grow closer to Christ who's not ready to show up and be faithful and how they approach the topic of what it means to follow Jesus. And so as you begin to think and look for someone who's faithful ask yourself these questions.
Are they showing up? In the places of spiritual disciplines are they putting in the work? Have they expressed kind of a lifestyle that leads you to believe that they're following Christ? Yeah another note on that Tony and I love this idea of faithfulness. And I always think of Luke 16 10 with this F right?
What does it really mean? And Luke 16 10 says whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much. And whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much. And so I call this there's a training principle here of someone who is faithful with a small opportunity will likely be faithful with a larger opportunity but somebody who is not faithful with a small opportunity such as the opportunity to learn and grow from being a part of Church services at a regular level or small groups at a regular interval if they can't handle that level of opportunity and to be Faithful there.
They're probably not going to behave any differently with a greater opportunity of being discipled And so that's one of the ways right just as you're saying that's one of the ways that we can examine and see well Is this person that we're considering are they a good fit for disciple making? Okay.
And then that Oh good. Well I was just going to transition us into that next letter the next letter being available. So Justin when you think about availability what is it that you think about? Yeah. So availability is probably the most straightforward of these three right? So are do they have the time?
In their schedule is their schedule packed so full that they cannot meet regularly with you? That they can't get time with you you know to sit down over coffee or sit down over a meal? Do they have time to to get together with you on occasion doing things outside of that whether it's spending time with family together?
Going to play golf together or whatever it is Is their schedule Such that they have time for the the type of relationship that disciple making requires Because here's the reality if they don't have time to do that with you then they're definitely not going to have time when you ask them to go do it with somebody else.
Right? And so this availability piece is really really important. And honestly this is one of those that can be really easy to be tricked on because if they're both faithful and teachable which we'll talk about next then they can say oh yeah I'd love to do that let's do that let's get started etc.
etc. but then it can become quickly apparent whether it's before like when you're trying to schedule that first meeting or as the scheduling moves forward after you've met a couple times that really they don't have that availability. They're canceling on you. They're moving the time that that you've already scheduled things like that.
And so we have to be able to have time with those that we're discipling. If it's going to work at all one of the other things that goes along with availability that's important to keep your finger on the pulse of is emotional availability. So sometimes when you're meeting with someone they're overwhelmed with the things in their life or a traa or an acute kind of situation.
A great example of that is is that if you're meeting with a guy who's going through a marital kind of distress and it's so acute. He thinks about it all the time. You're not going to be able to get to intentional practices for following Jesus because at the time he's not emotionally available. So I'm not suggesting that you give up on the person or that you just abandon the person.
What I want you to know is that there is a difference between someone who needs Kind of a more counseling triage approach versus someone who's ready to actually get into intentional disciple making. And there are even seasons where you just have to put a pin in it right? If if someone's close to their family is is in the process of dying you may have to put a pin in disciple making for the sake of the relationship because right now they're just not emotionally available.
And that's okay. Because as disciple makers we play the long game far more than we play the short game. And so if I'm understanding you right Tony what you're saying is that there's availability the physical the time but there's also the emotional. As disciple makers part of what we're doing is digging into their emotional life the challenges that they have in their life.
And so we're not saying that when discipled.
I think what you're saying is that we have to be careful that we're not selecting people whose emotional challenges or whose life challenges are so great that they don't have the capacity or the the ability to delve into their life with God. and they need more of a counselor. that needs to be the major input that they have in their life right now.
more so than a disciple maker at that time. Is that I want to make sure that we could get some miscommunication and we're not trying to get no I I'm not as disciple makers. We always dive into the depths of people's lives but sometimes in our selection process it may not be the right season to select someone who's going through something that makes them emotionally unavailable and that's okay.
Yes. Yeah. Because somebody who's not it's not a great time for them to be discipled right now. We're not saying they'll never be a great person for discipling. Right. So I know for me there was a time when somebody tried to disciple me when I was a terrible person to disciple. It was not a good pick by that guy because I was I was not faithful whatsoever to him.
and I was It's maybe teachable maybe and only available when I want it to be because I wasn't I wasn't faithful. And so yeah just because it's a no right now doesn't mean that you're saying the person's never going to be a good fit for disciple making. And that's why this selection is so important that Jesus would spend you know a whole night in prayer.
over who it was that he should invite into a relationship like this. Okay. So so far we have faithful we have available. Tony what's the what's the T bring us home here. The T is teachable right? Teachable. And that means are they willing to come in and take instruction right? Because of the intentional.
nature of disciple making what we're asking you to do in the relationship is to come in with an agenda in mind to come in with tools in mind to think about how we can help teach someone. Well there's nothing more frustrating as a disciple maker for someone who's not willing to come in and accept any of the teaching that you're bringing to the table.
Now I'm not talking about just like resistance. Resistance is okay. What I'm talking about is just blatant disregard right? Are they even Open to being challenged. Are they taking it from a hble posture? Are they open to trying it even if it's hard? Are they willing to do the work? It's one of the reasons why I think it's so important to assign homework early on in the relationship is because when you assign homework and they don't do it or do it you'll get a clear sense of teachability.
Yeah and that that piece is real important right? Because we can't have an intentional relationship that moves somewhere moves them from where they are to a different reality whether internally and externally that's what we're looking for if they're not willing to do something different right? And so it's that intentional being open and receiving that.
you know instruction or teaching teaching makes it sound like it's all academic or knowledge focused and it's not but there is a component of that. And what I want to what I want to kind of wrap us with here on the faithful available teachable is you know when we think about second Timothy two two which Paul is writing to Timothy and he says in the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses in trust reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others.
That's what's at stake here. in selection right? If we're going to have a disciple making relationship that moves to a place of multiplication where they're going out and doing it with someone else then we we can't just hang out with people and be friends with them. Right. I think of disciple making is friendship plus right?
So it's not only loving someone and getting into their life and supporting them but it's helping them grow in their faith and mature in their faith to the place where they can do this with others. Because our world is full of brokenness and full of people who are struggling in life. And who want more of Jesus who want more of his freedom and the grace that he offers.
want to separate from sin more and more. And some of us have figured out and have made progress in that. We haven't figured it all out. We're not perfect in it but we've made progress in it. And so part of what disciple making is is helping people that have tasted it figure out how to help others with it.
And then part of it is those people who are broken and hurting but... really open and hungry to to growing in Jesus and growing in maturity to helping them really become disciple makers and to become free from a lot of that stuff. Tony what else do we need to consider when we're thinking about this question of finding someone to disciple?
One of the things that I think is important to also wrestle with is I'm oftentimes looking for non Christians. Who I can begin to disciple and hang out with right now. You're like Tony non Christians that kind of butts up against faithful available teachable and that's true right? That's true. However I can test someone's character even before they know God.
And so in that way I'm looking for someone who's faithful available teachable. One of the things that we talk about in evangelism in our churches seeing opportunities for God talk right? Who are our neighbors? Who do we need a love on? Who are the people that keep showing up? And I think there were a lot of prayer and discernment.
You can begin to surround yourself with people that may not know Christ but maybe on the verge of being faithful available teachable maybe they're already available and teachable and the faithful part. Well that's what you're there for. You're there to walk with them as they grow into their faith. And in that case the kind of lens is a little bit different.
So I always look for a faithful available teachable or fat non Christians as well as Christians. And I want to keep my eyes open because the Lord can reveal so many things. Yeah. Cause if we can find some non Christians like that who are interested in examining the claims of Jesus eventually they're going to be Christ followers.
And there's no better person to disciple than somebody who's just come into the faith Who are really excited to grow and to learn you know and they are almost always fat from the start in that case So if you're not sure who to disciple And you're looking around the church and you're not finding people Go spend a lot of time with non christians and go really just intentionally invest in those relationships.
Pray for them to come to faith. And then as they do you're gonna have people to disciple right away from the people that Jesus is bringing into the kingdom as you spend time with them. So again faithful available teachable. Let me talk through our takeaway and action step for this week. So our takeaway is Find someone to disciple or finding someone to disciple takes intentional prayer and discernment right?
Like I mentioned earlier Jesus prayed all night long and if he needed that time to connect to God's heart on who to invest in how much more do we need to do the same? And then our action step pray about who in your life is ready to be discipled. Really pray about it. And then make a list of a couple names that you can continue to pray over.
And then move towards an invitation. and so again pray and make that list. And we're going to be praying with you because we know that there are people out there who are probably calling out to God today. God would you send someone to help me? I need your help. I need your help. And you can be that person for someone.
Thanks again for listening. We're excited to be back with you this season. we have lots of great episodes in store for you. And so one of the biggest things that you can do for us is rate and review this podcast and even greater than that is if you would share a podcast episode that you really love or found valuable with a friend of yours so that you can encourage them to we'll see you soon.