Child disciples. If I were to kind of sum up who they are, what they're trying to do, it would be something like this that they believe in Jesus, but they're working out, and working on what it means to live and follow him.
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Justin, how are you? Doing great. How are you doing Tony? You're doing really well. I am. I'm super excited. I got a story to share with you right off the back and I share it. Let's hear it. So I'm one of the guys that I have been poured into for the last three or four months. He's been reading scripture for the first time.
Right. And he's a, he was an atheist who converted to Christianity and is now, in the disciple-making process. Right. And we've been talking about the disciple-making growth process. And, my dear friend came in this morning and he just finished reading the gospel of Matthew for the first time. Wow.
Yeah. Love the gospel of Matthew. And I said, I said, Zach, what, what did God tell you? Or what did you learn about God? Or what have you learned about yourself in the midst of reading the gospel of Matthew? And he said one of the best statements I've ever heard, which is all scripture really points back to disciple-making.
Oh, wow. Yeah. My heart about exploded. Like it jumped out at, it was like the choir thing. Like it was like, finally somebody gets it, you know, and it was, it was just really exciting. And, and that was, that was this morning. And now we're here. We're recording a podcast. So if I'm a little amped up, it's not just the coffee, it's also what God's doing in Zach's life.
There you go. That's awesome. So, what he was seeing was not only disarming, but through that gospel saw Jesus's priorities in ministry. And so now I'm just thinking of some other friends that might say, oh, I don't know about disciple. Is that all point back to disciple-making you're all point back to Jesus.
And you know, as we, have talked in the past about your relationship with him, what's going on. I know that's really what he's communicating, right? Yeah. He's seeing Jesus do this and that's Jesus' priority in all of scripture. We can see that that's where, where it's headed is to be more like him. And what I love is, is I think for, for Zack and where it's really appropriate for today is that when we think about the disciple-making growth process, right?
The journey of disciple-making for me, this signifies a very important shift. In Zach's life. Okay. Right. And so I would say that he's making the transition from an infant to a child in the disciple-making process. And maybe what we should do is really, you should kind of refresh everybody's memory what the growth process is.
But, but essentially this was, this was like a big day because we kind of took that first step in, moving into a, a child, decided. Part of his walk, right? Yeah. So it sounds like, and we, we talked a lot about this last episode is that, you know, we can compare a disciple's development, to a child's development from birth all the way to maturity and.
It sounds like what you're you experienced today? It was almost like the first step of a, of a child, you know, at first they're like standing up and, you know, you can kind of see it's coming soon and, and then something happens, right. There's that step that's like, ah, you did it, you took the steps. Right, right.
and so that's super exciting, Tony. so let's, let's recap just a little bit, like you mentioned. this process of growth and development. Last time we talked about what it looked like to be an infant disciple. And some of the things that we talked about was that they make messes. we can't expect them to do a lot on their own.
we have to give them a lot of care and attention. Their needs are really that. I mean, their needs are to be cared for and to be loved and to be provided for, and to help them learn some of the basics. Right. And to, to have those sorts of conversations. And I know that's what you've been doing with your friend there.
and so this, this next step, and what we're talking about today is child disciples. And what does it look like to be a child disciple and how do we help child decide. But we should touch on first kind of the catalyst or what are the differences between an infant disciple and a child disciple. And I want to offer just a couple of them that really help us to see the difference.
So, infant disciples don't yet have a sense of who they are, who God really is or what he wants from them. But child disciples are starting to get that. So they're starting to have faith that God is active and personally involved in their life. You know, another thing Tony is that, the disciplines begin to form.
And so, you know, like you just shared with your friend, like he is, he's reading scripture frequently. Now he's reflecting on it and you didn't mention this, but my guess is that prayer is, is right there with it, right apart, we're doing prayer and scripture memory and some of the things that are good foundation.
To go from, you know, just information about who God is to application about who God is, who is God to me personally. And how does that play out? That's awesome. That's awesome. another thing we should mention is they began to go public with their faith. And so now again, we're talking about a span of time, and so if we think physically, you know, really.
From the time your child is walking, you know, they're no longer a baby, right? They're not an infant, but they're children all the way till they're adolescents, really until the puberty starts. So there's, there's a range. And so a lot of times this, becoming more public with their faith, takes a little longer to come, but, but it's a part of it too, that, we begin to see as a change or a difference that catalyzes the growth well, and it's like that first moment where you can begin to really send your kids out to.
Order things for themselves. Right. You know, like, or, or talk to the neighbors or because you've got a couple of extroverted kids that I know have, have, have decided on their own fruition to kind of walk over and just engage dialogue with the neighbors. And it, for me, at least as a parent, that's signifies a difference of what I would do with my infant.
Right. Like, like, you know, now it's not like a, you know, this isn't like a life-changing conversation probably, but like it's an opportunity for the child to articulate. Where they are and where they're going and what their needs are. And it's, as a dad, I'll say this, like, it's, it's much easier for me to parent children than infants, because they can really start to begin to articulate the tension points in their faith and the tension points in their life.
And we can dive into some of those, this is really where we start getting into sin issues, you know? Right. Yeah. Tony, how would you, how would you kind of describe or define. and a child disciple. What, what might be some of the things that are on their mind or how, how might they present themselves?
Yeah, well, I think that the most important thing to say is like they, they represent the largest segment on the continuum. You know, first of all, like if you think about this whole growth process as a track, this is the largest group. This is the bus load of people. A lot of Christians come to know Christ.
And are saved in the faith and then move into childhood and then stop growing. And, and, you know, personally, this is one of the, the burdens of the church where I think that we have the opportunity to really improve. Because we've got a whole bunch of people running around with a childlike faith, which is why we see these people going ranting and raving on Facebook and Instagram, because, Hey, that's a childlike faith.
They just, they have outbursts. Right. And that's part of the process. But, but in this part of the continu they're discovering the value of faith in every. Hmm. And they're doing that through application mostly. Like how do I apply this spiritual truth to the relationship that I'm in? You know, a great example is you read something in scripture about forgiveness and then you go to work and you're hurt and, and you're able to apply forgiveness almost immediately.
I would also say that for most people, reading scripture has become a peripheral part of their life. On a somewhat regular basis. I don't know if you can make a more ambiguous sentence, but, you know, they periodically dive into the word, the growth is slow, but, and really steady. Yeah. You know, and, and, and this is where I would say that that children who are orphans, spiritual orphans.
Right. And you and I have talked about this before, not on the podcast, but children who are spiritual orphans often struggle to ever leave the childlike faith. Right. Yeah. And, and you know, why tell us, why do you think that is? So without the intentionality of someone helping you form into adulthood, , it's really difficult to know when you're.
Hmm, and to make the decision to become an adult. And one of the things, you know, if you've read some of John Eldridges writing about this is he would say that the, the lack of intentional growth, intentional ceremonies, intentional thing in children's life has stunted growth. Okay. Right. And so, yeah. These kinds of spiritual settings.
I believe the same holds true. Is that when we don't have someone saying, Hey, it's time to transition out of childhood, into adolescence or young adulthood, then what ends up happening is you always end up acting like a child. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's totally right. That it, another thing that comes to mind though, is that if we're, if we're an orifice, Then we don't have a good model.
Right. We're a good relationship with the person that has the model. and so with that, we don't, we don't see, we S we see other, other child disciples around us and we act like them because that's, that's our peers. Right. If we don't have a parent that's investing in. and it's really hard to, to catch a vision for what it is we're supposed to become or could become.
I think most of, child disciples, if I were to kind of sum up who they are, what they're trying to do, it would be something like this that they believe in Jesus, but they're working. and working on what it means to live and follow him. And they don't really know that yet there, they have some glimpses of it here and there, but they're not sure.
And if they don't have somebody close to them, that's investing in them, then it's really difficult for them to, not even decide, but to just pick up, through the example, again, we've, we've said in the past more is caught than taught, but to catch what it means to. To grow naturally and into a more mature decision.
Tony, so you've mentioned, some of the characteristics, largest, largest population and churches and in America, if you're, if you're listening and you know, we don't know anything else about you, chances are you might be a child disciple. Those that you're reaching out to, if they express any faith at all, might be a child disciple.
You know, what else can you tell us about either your experience when you were a child disciple? What were you like then? Yeah, so I, I would say that the, the most, telling outward sign of the child disciple part of the growth phase is that you don't have a vision for the fullness of life that comes with disciple-making.
Right. And so this is one of those parts of the child disciple phase that I think is both important for anyone who's listening, who might be there and anyone who, you know, that might be there as well. Right? So one of the things that we have to do is begin to plant the vision of disciple-making in the child's life.
So they know what the growing up to be. I love that know. What we do in parenting, at least what I've done with my kids. I feel like you've done the same as we begin in their early years. We begin to tell them, Hey, this is what you can be when you grow up. Right. We can talk about school. We can talk about vocation.
We can talk about ministry. We begin to plant seeds for all those things. But, but I often wonder, yeah. Why doesn't that happen in the church? Right. You know, how, how do we go in the child phase from going. I'm watching the faith to, owning the faith. And this is the fullness of life that God has promised for you when you begin to own your faith in an intentional way that as it pertains to disciple-making because you know, you and I both agree that the life that Christ has called us to the fullness of that life.
Is dependent upon our ability to follow Christ to do what Christ did. Yeah. I mean, that's, that is what being a Christian is following Christ. Well, Christ discipled people, and that's the vision that sometimes gets lost in translation. and part of the reason why I think that we have so many spiritual orphans, you know, running around our churches and our communities, because while we never did a great job of casting the vision.
I like that. So I like how you said we're planting these seeds. Right. And that's really what, what they are right at this stage is, you know, it seeds a vision. It is, you know, just helping them get a glimpse and cause they probably aren't mature enough to grasp it fully yet. but we plant the seeds and we help them.
And so when I work with, with child disciples, some of the things that I really try to focus on. vision is certainly one of the top three things and I'm focusing on, another one is to, to just spend a lot of time with them. Right. And so trying to invite them into things that I'm a part of. If I'm going to speak somewhere, I want to take them.
If, you know, I'm doing just stuff wherever, like I want to get that time with them. so they can get to know me. I can get to know them, but also so that we can practice observing together. And especially when we're in a ministry setting or relational setting, when we walk out of that, we can process it together.
Well, what'd you see? And as we develop those skills of observations, they become more and more aware of both their identity, and their calling. And they do that because they're, they're watching me and we're talking about it. Right. And so it's those sorts of things being with helping them observe. becoming more aware of their identity and calling, and then really casting that vision and communicating vision to them of, yeah, this is, this is what it means to follow Jesus.
You know, this is these, aren't just optional, cool things. Like, no, we actually have to love people. We actually have to be obedient and be in the scriptures and, cultivate that relationship that we have with them. so I kind of look at those kinds of basic needs are that are kind of our marching orders, right?
Yeah. What I love about that is that we look at the disciple-making, picture as being a bucket in this stage. You've got one foot in the bucket. And so when you've got one foot in a bucket and one foot out of the bucket, if the bucket was nailed to the ground, then it's safe to say that you end up walking in a lot of service.
and I feel like that's the case image. I feel like that's the case with the child, phase of the disciple-making process is a lot of tension in there. Right. Because, because they're, they're mostly committed, but they're not like sold out yet to the vision of disciple-making. And so it's like, yeah, that sounds like a good idea, but so does this, and then they, you know, we like, we, we just wrestle on that tension and at least in my experience, When somebody buys into this part of the process, like when, when somebody decides not only do I understand that I'm a child, but I, I want to not stay in this very long.
There's, there's so much the growth that can happen. Like watching Zach read the gospels for the first time brings me so much joy and, and, you know, it's easy as. As somebody who's spent a lot of time in the word, it's easy to lose the awe and wonder that that comes with a childlike faith. Right. But, but I think that the movement of God, you know, and, and for those of us who are in church leadership, we want to be about movements and not moments.
The movement of God is dependent upon children, seeing the awe and wonder of who God is, and then deciding that they want to carry it forward. I really like how you said that because it's bigger than disciple making. Yeah. Right. That's hard to mean we are red hot on disciple-making, but the w there's there's something bigger than that.
And it is, it is God who he is. It's who Christ is. And, and because of our commitment and love for, for God. And for what he's done and, and Jesus, and the model that he gave us and what he did for us on the cross. that's why we're so passionate about helping other people get this and to grow in the faith.
So that first of all, so that they can know God as good or better than we do. And then also, so that they can be a part of this great mission and adventure that God invites us into, to really be a part of building the kingdom. And changing the eternal destination, for those around us, that he, that he brings into our life.
And so I really like man, how you said that of, the all in wonder of God. I think that's great. And if our child disciples, if, if those that we're discipling in that phase, if they get even a piece of it, Man. It makes him hungry. Doesn't it? Oh, well, I it's just, it's so exciting. Right? Like it, there's something so exciting about experiencing something for the first time.
And when you see the hope that comes with the gospel for the very first time, let's go. I mean, this is what it's all about. I get super fired up about it. That's awesome. All right. So let me sum up what we're saying, right. About who these child disciples are kind of. A description, right? So these, these are people who are onboard with core beliefs of scripture, the like, like infants they're, they're vulnerable to insecurity and doubt.
and they're probably hesitant to share their faith. They're, they're trying to develop that personal relationship with God. And as we're investing in them, that is, some of the things that we need to be aware of and focused on. let me share our takeaway for today. And then Tony, you could share the action.
Step. A takeaway is just to ask yourself, where are you? You know, in this continu do you fit this profile of a child disciple? And if you do, what's your next step, but maybe you're sitting here and saying, well, yeah, I know I'm not in that phase. But then you might ask the question, well, is there a child disciple in your life either currently that you're discipling or somebody that, that, you know, and how could you help them take the next step?
So those are kind of couple real brief takeaways. action. Step and take us out, Tony. Yeah, the action step, I think, is to identify, again, identify where you are on the growth process. So ask yourself some of the questions. Do I have a vision for disciple-making? do, am I periodically engaged in the disciplines or am I committed to the disciplines?
Right. Like identify, do a little self evaluation here and spend some time asking yourself the question. Am I a child disciple? Who are the children to child disciples in my life. Yeah. And what do they need next? Right. And really begin to wrestle with. You know, at the end of the day, we want these series of podcasts to be an opportunity for you to look at yourself and to look at the people that you're pouring into and really wrestle with the question, where are we, where are we going?
That's our hope, that's our prayer. And we're so thankful to be on this journey with you. You are the people that make it fun are our faithful listeners. We're very thankful for you do us a favor hit that subscribe button. So you don't miss any of the future episodes leaving a rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts, it really does help get the word out.
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