There's a program that, that gets started and, you know, disciple-making seems to be going well, three to four or five years in. There's a moment that happens when the leaders realize that this isn't having the depth of transformation that maybe they thought it was. And that's their crooked tower moment.
Okay.
Hey everyone. Welcome back to the practitioners podcast, where we're applying Jesus' style disciple-making in everyday life. This episode is power and navigators church ministries, which focuses on helping churches, make disciples who can make disciples for more information, check out navigators, church ministries.org, Justin, how are you this afternoon?
Doing better snows. It's getting warmer out. Yeah. It feels like spring is kind of sprung a little bit. Let's hope we got the ball gloves out at my house for the first time. This week, as it inched above 50 degrees in Ohio, I thought to myself, we're finally in baseball. My son asked me before I came here today that, when I get back, he wants to throw the ball around outside.
So, and, and I love that idea because last week we talked about the idea that if you want to change your culture, Build a team, right? We talked about the importance of team and today they were going to talk about foundations. What building your team on. And I know that you've written a piece last week. It was.
Our, action step is go out and download and make sure you've you read, foundations of a disciple-making culture this week. We're going to talk a little bit more about foundations and I was hoping that you would kick us off with a story, that you share in the book about foundations. Yes, absolutely.
So the story begins with a man named and this story happened in the 12th century. On August 9th, 1173, PIs Onno began to build a tower. Now, Panzano was not an architect. He wasn't a builder. In fact, by trade, he was a sculptor and his job when he did, is he. He made images out of stone and bronze, and sometimes he'd do that doors.
And he was kind of the, the pride of his city and so much show and known as a man of detail and quality that they asked him to build a tower that would help this city become more known. And that, that the city could look at and be like, we did that. This was so awesome. And so he said, great. Yeah, I'll do that.
And so he starts building a tower and for a while, it's going great. Right. Three, four years in it's going wonderful. And then one day, and we don't know how it happened, but, but one day it had, it had to have happened this way that somebody looked at the tower and noticed that it was just a little bit crooked.
And of course, if that person wasn't Paizano himself, they would have gone to him and said, You know, it looks like it might be a little bit crooked and he would have walked away from the tower that he was building, probably hoping against hope that it, that it was not true. Right. And then he stops and turns around and looks and sure enough, it's not straight.
And so I call that kind of his crooked tower moment, the moment that he realized that, after three or four years of building and everything being good and looking like it's going well, That he has this crooked tower moment where he realizes there's a problem. And in the book I kind of unfold it. This is the story of the leaning tower of PISA, which we all know about the leaning tower and what happened.
architects have figured out that the problem actually was a foundation problem. No kidding. Yep. Peas actually means marshy soil. And so, you know, they probably should have anticipated that it would have been a little more difficult than, than just building on any, any other place they would have, but Paizano, wouldn't have known that because he wasn't a builder.
He wasn't an architect. So he put down an insufficient foundation that held and looked like it was fine. For the first three, four years. And in churches that happens all the time. Oh, for sure. And especially in disciple-making where there's a program that, that gets started and, you know, disciple-making seems to be going well, three to four or five years in.
There's a moment that happens when the leaders realize that this isn't having the depth of transformation that maybe they thought it was. And that's their crooked tire moment. Oh, I love that term depth of transformation. I think because I believe passionately about common language. Do me a favor and define depth of transfer of transformation for us so that everybody can be on the same page.
What that means. When you say depth of transformation, what does that look like in our lives? Yeah. So I think about it like this. So if somebody is transformed at the very core and root of who they are, It changes, not what they do. It changes who they are. And so it's not, I mean, and when we change who we are, we'll change what we do.
But if we don't have the depth of transformation that we need around, disciple-making that we're just doing something different. And when something else comes down the road that we're asked to do, we're willing to transition again. Okay. Well, yeah. Now we'll do that. But if we are changed at the core of who we are, we're transformed, then we never move away from.
This vision and call of being a disciple that makes disciples. Yeah, so like, I think for me, one of the things that I've realized, at my depth of transformation, my crooked tower moment is that no matter where I go, whatever, whatever I'm doing, I'm going to make disciples with the people that I run into.
And I'm going to create a culture of disciple-making I'm going to lean into it. I'm going to cast that vision everywhere I go, because, well, it's just part of who I am. And, and this really leads me to an important idea. Last week, we talked about the team that you're on and how important that is. And today we're going to talk about how to build a core team or your foundation of disciple-making.
So this is really important. If you've got a paper and pen, write this down, it'll be in the show notes. Otherwise we're going to go off of the acronym core C O R E core common vision. Owned individually, individually, relationally resilient and enduring to the end. Common vision owned individually, relationally resilient, enduring to the end.
And I'm going to kick us off by talking about common vision. One of the things that I love to say is that common vision creates common mood. When I was in the army, we used to talk all the time about what the squad goal was. Right. We all knew what the end goal was, what the vision of the team was, what it means.
So when we talk about building a foundation, people need to be able to articulate and, respond with the vision of disciple-making in the community that you're trying to do. Right. So whether that's your home and we're talking about your kids or whether that's your church, and we're talking about your parishioners, all of that lends itself to the common vision, right?
Common vision creates common movement, and we want everyone moving in the same direction. Far too often in the church world, we suffer from misdirection or what the army calls mission creep. In other words, we get distracted by all that. I'm going to use air quotes here, important things that we have. And so common vision says, Hey, we're all moving in the same direction.
And while there may be some value, right? That's not a, that's not a slap in the face to other things, but is that part of the vision? Do you have capacity to do that? Those things are, will it take away from where we're trying to go as well? here, here's a great example. We used to do VBS here every single year at restoration VBS was very well received.
One year I, I was doing VBS and on the fourth day of VBS, there's always this kind of, except Jesus moment, right? You give the kids the opportunity to accept Jesus into their heart. Super powerful, super meaningful, and less the people in the room have been there for multiple times. And so here I am, fourth day, I'm getting ready to, to give what I feel like is this transformational moment.
And Justin, do you know what happened? What the kid gave me the line that I was about to say from the curriculum verbatim? Oh no. Yeah. It was horrible. It was horrible. What had happened is, is this was the third VBS that he had been to. And, he knew what I was doing. Stole the thunder stole my thunder.
Well, I looked around the room and I, I just started taking a survey. Hey, how many VBS is, have you been to raise your hand to raise your hand? Three? I think the most was five. Wow. Yeah. A lot of moms are looking for, you know, good things for their kids to do in the summertime, which, you know, good for them, no judgment there.
But then I started ask the question, is this a good use of our resources? And is it moving us towards the common vision? And so we should. And, and you know what it's been okay. Like the church is still doing, doing amazing thing in God's name because it's it's okay. Tell us what about the, oh yeah. So the owned individually.
So in a team context, we have to help each individual of the team own the vision individually. Now on a, on a disciple-making team, a core team, like we're talking about that will form a foundation in a chair. that's more challenging than you might think, right? Because it's one thing for people to see the vision.
Right. But that's a challenge in and of itself, just like you were talking about having a common vision is a challenge to get people, to see it because we're running through a common language that we define differently. And so that's one of the challenges that, common vision entails. But when we get to own individually, it's really a problem of moving.
And so I can see the vision that you might have as the pastor. And if I'm sitting there on the team, I have a lot of decisions to make right now. I might, support that vision. I might not want to be in the way of your vision, but it's a different thing for me to own that vision. And to say that as an individual, I want to do that because not only do I grow.
I do I see where you want us to go, but I agree that I need to get there and to, to be part of that movement with you, team setting, it's easy to hide because what people don't want to do in that setting is to look at you and say, well, Tony, I, yeah, I agree with the problem. And I agree with the solution.
we need more disciple makers, but you know, honestly, I think that's the staff's job. You know, I'm a businessman. I'm not, that's not me. And so what will happen on a team setting instead of that guy saying that to you, he will go along because he's committed to the team and he's a faithful guy. So he'll complete the assignments.
He'll participate in the team meetings. But when you go ask him to do something, he may or may not do it, but if he does it, he's going to do it as if he's, you know, completing a checklist. Not that he's moving into it with his whole heart. Right. And so when we have that sort of engagement on the team, it dilutes the entire process for the rest of them.
Now, not only might he be in that place, but let's say that there's another person on the team who, you know, agrees with the vision. This is what needs to happen, agrees that it's not just the staff that needs to do it agrees that she maybe should be a part of it, but she is, a real strong introvert and.
See herself moving out towards others in that way. Now it takes a high degree of vulnerability for her to get to a place where she's going to say that to, to you as an individual or to the entire team. And so what's more likely is she's going to continue on the team and participate in a kind of muted sort of way.
And maybe she'll try it with somebody in her family because she's not wholehearted in it. Right. And so we have all these sorts of challenges. That we have to help each individual through, on the team setting so that they get to a place of deep ownership that not only do I agree with the vision, but I agree that God is calling me to be a wholehearted part of fulfilling that vision.
And so that's what the O is about owned individually. We have to help them get to that. Yeah. Now remember, we're going through the acronym core from, foundations of disciple-making. And now we're going to talk a little about the R right? So relationally resilient, so owned individually then moves into relationally resilient.
And this is really important because Justin, you said it really well is that we're going to run into challenges when we. the, the vision individually, whether you're the extreme introvert or the extreme extrovert, the, the part that creates all the problem in disciple-making is the people part. Amen.
Amen. Yeah. It's, it's the worst. Right? And one of the things that we often joke about is that disciple-making cuts to the very core of who you are, because people will show you. All of your faults, you know, they'll show you all of the challenges. And so it requires us to be relationally resilient, meaning that no matter what happens, we have to have a commitment to show up relationally right now, no matter how many books you read, no matter how many things that you look up on the internet, no matter how many blogs you write, or how many podcasts you listen to, even though we want you to listen to the podcast, no matter all of them.
Disciple-making can happen without a relationship, right? You just can't do it without a relationship. So it requires us to be committed to, to relationships. And that means that when you get hurt, not if when you get hurt, you, you become resilient and bounce back in. It's a process of saying I'm committed to relationships, even though it makes me vulnerable.
Uncomfortable. And at times it even hurts, it even hurts. And so, after you've owned the vision individually, then we must commit to being relationally resilient and resilient on that team. Right. Tony, is that on teams? What we tend to do is we try to protect one another status team. Yeah. That's a good point.
Right. And so instead of, sharing. The fullness of what I think if my opinion disagrees with yours, you know, I'll, I'll not say anything or I might barely say something and you don't even really know where I stand, but in a team setting, tell us more about in a team setting. How does that relational resilience come out?
Yeah, one of the things that we've talked about is, a cliche that I really enjoy is the courageous truth. Right. If you're going to be on a team, you've got to be willing to share the courageous truth, even if it's hard. Right. And so that means that you're putting at risk, the team, to share the truth.
But the, the, the reality becomes is that you can't build a team without them. And so it's a double-edged sword and we see it in, in church teams all the time where we don't share the truth. How about how we're really feeling, because we're afraid we're going to hurt somebody's feelings, or they're not going to like us, or I won't be invited back, but here's the deal.
If you want to build a strong foundation, the team must share, th that kind of resiliency that we're going to share the truth, no matter what we're going to be here for each other, no matter what. And I'm going to love you enough to tell you exactly what I'm thinking. And I want you to do the same for me.
I don't want you to just, I just don't want you to hold back. You know what I mean? Like, and I think sometimes we'll, you know, I don't want you to confuse truth with compassion because you can be compassionate and still be truthful, but we can't give up truth. And that means sharing and talking and leaning into those relationships so that we can be a team too.
Yeah, really well said really well said. So then the, the E and our core acronym is enduring to the end. Now we started with a story about bonding Lopez Alano and when he had his crooked tire moment, shortly after that, he quit, he just pushed all the time and energy and effort. He put into the building that tower saw that it wasn't working, saw a big obstacle, and he just quit.
And quitting is, as human is trying, right. We have all encountered an obstacle and either really wanting to quit or did quit, because it's just natural. Right? And so what teams normally move through is they have trouble seeing, but then they see they have trouble moving, but then they move. But then the final obstacle that they normally have to move through is this temptation and deep desire to quit and to go backwards to the way things were before.
And so it's almost as if forming a new habit, right. You're trying something new and you have a lot of energy towards it and you invest a lot, but sometimes you just get tired and you're so tired. You just want to go back to the way things were and on disciple-making teams, there is that point in the process where there's an energy on the team that is.
Tired exhausted. And the thing about this point in the process, Tony is the leader of the team is normally most energized right around the time the team members are feeling most exhausted. And what happens is he's so energized because they're now finally doing it, right. They're making disciples, they're out with people.
They're, they're, applying a lot of the things they've been talking about. And so he's feeling really good or she's feeling really good and excited about the progress they've made. But they are feeling tired and he misses it because he's feeling so encouraged. And so at this point in the process is when the leader of the team really has to draw near to those team members and encourage them and say, Hey, you're doing great.
We cannot go back right now. We are so close. Look at how far we've traveled member, how we, we didn't even know where we were going. And then we weren't sure how to start, or if we wanted to start, it could start. And then we did. And now look at the stuff that's happened. And so the leader really changes into kind of chief cheerleader, at this point in the process to keep people going and so that they can endure to the end.
And that end is, you know, a team that is deeply committed and transformed, right? So they're no longer just doing something, they have become something. And so that's the E in our, in our actions. And I love that. I think it takes it back to that deep transformation that we talked about right out of the gate is that, you know, that you're there.
When everyone on the team knows that they have to make disciples for the rest of their life. And that's my goal, right? Like if the church creates a culture of disciple-making great, I want that. But at the end of the day, if we leave this earth, knowing that every person that we did life with has this vision for discipleship.
Then I'll feel like I've really lived out what Jesus calls us to and Matthew, in, in the gospel of Matthew. So that's, that's super exciting. Justin, tell us what about our takeaways and our, and our action steps? Yeah. So a takeaway today is it foundations are really difficult and take time. But if you don't lay a strong foundation, everything will fall over.
You will have a crooked tower moment. And, and most of the time people aren't going to be able to recover from that, though. It's not impossible to, right. So foundations are difficult and take time, but if you don't do it, if you don't lay that strong foundation, everything will fall over. Our action step is to begin investing in your core team.
Maybe you, maybe you need to start one. And so that would be, you know, start investing in a core team. But if you already have one, you know, invest at the level that you need to invest clear your schedule so that you're taking the time for them, that they're going to need to become a team and to become disciple makers that are individually owning that vision that you've given.
Hey guys. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for checking us out as always make sure you subscribe. Share this episode with a friend, leave us a rating or review on iTunes. It really does make a difference. Don't forget to download, Justin's book. The link will be in the show notes. It's a great tool in helping build the core team and lay that solid foundation until next week.
Guys look forward to connecting with you real soon.