We can't be a disciple maker. If we're not a disciple.
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the practitioners podcast. Applying Jesus' style disciple-making in every day. Life. This episode is powered by navigators church ministries, where they help churches become excellent in the great commission. Welcome everybody. We're excited to be with you and to talk with you today about, um, something that's really, really important for disciple makers and for disciples, of course.
We can't be a disciple maker if we're not a disciple. And a lot of times we can forget that or minimize that, but we don't want to, we don't want to rush past that or forget that, uh, in our times together, uh, this morning or today, whatever time of day, you're listening to this, we are going to be, uh, looking at the role of scripture in our life.
And really, I would say that this is the primary way that disciples can grow in their faith. And we're just kind of unpack that a little bit. Of that truth, that it's the primary way that disciples grow in their life. And we want to look at that together, um, today. So Tony, I kind of threw that out there that this is the biggest way, the primary way that disciples grow in their life.
Um, do you have any evidence like in your own life that, that, that might be true or it is true? You know, it's such a big statement, right? To say that it's the primary way that we grow. And, and I, I thought long and hard about it because, you know, it's easy to think about Sunday morning worship. It's easy to think of.
Prayer. If you're a prayer warrior or you got a prayer closet or something like that. Um, but this is what I'll tell you, is that in my experience, being in a drought and not being in scripture has impacted me more than not doing any other discipline. And just to be fair, I've not done every discipline, at least one, one season in my life.
Um, but I'll never forget. My time when I was deployed, many of you know, that I was in the army for a number of years and I was in Kuwait for a year and we lived in these, um, we call them conexes, but really, if you know the portable on demand storage units, there they're like, like the pod. Yeah, the pods right there.
They're six by 16, six feet, wide, 16 feet deep. And two men lived in them for a year and then they just cut a hole in the back and they piped in air conditioning. Cause it was, it was hot in the middle of the night. No, no windows. As a matter of fact, it was it, they were stacked in a warehouse on top of each other and they put in catwalks.
Really? Yeah. And so one of the pods was a shower pod at the end of each row and it was disgusting and all the women lived in one warehouse and all the men live in another warehouse and it was wow. That's really interesting. It was a long year in, in one of the things I'll tell you, is that not being in the word in seasons during that year?
Um, often led me to a place of depression because no windows doing the same thing every day. Uh, there, what we call combat fatigue, just, just the, the adrenaline rush of always being on mission really has a way of wearing you down. And what I, what I found was is when I was in scripture, I had. Okay. I had hope I had hope in the promise.
I had hope in the word I had. I felt like God was speaking to me. And, and maybe not surprising as it sounds so obvious now, but not obvious then when I wasn't in the scripture, I lost hope. Yeah. And, and when you're in a, in a routine, you know, maybe, maybe like COVID right. Maybe like a deployment, maybe like homeschooling your kids when you're in a routine and you fall out of discipline.
It's really easy. To get off track. It's really easy to lose hope. One of the things that I, I love to say is that if you're not dedicated to your disciplines, you'll be destroyed by your distraction. That's good. And thank you. And I just really think that the scripture is one of those disciplines that prevents us from getting distracted by the mundane and.
The hard parts of life. So, so that that's kind of how scripture has really cemented its place in my life. As a primary resource. Yeah. One of the interesting things you said is that, you know, when you, it was going well, and then you stopped and it should have seemed obvious, but it didn't. Um, but that's kind of the way it works.
There's not, I mean, if you break it down to what you're actually doing, I mean, you're opening up the Bible and you're reading words, right? I mean, you're just reading the scriptures and there it's gotta be more engagement than that. It's not that that's the ideal. But when we think about moving away from it, that's kind of what we think, oh, I can read that later.
I'm going to read this right now or whatever. And we miss the fact that, that the word of God is different than all other things that we can read. Right. It's living and active is what Hebrews four, 12 and 13 tells us. It is powerful. It cuts us up on the inside. And I think that's part of why it's so easy just to drift from right.
Or to be distracted from. Well, it's just one of those things right there. I don't, I didn't wake up one day and like, man, I'm not going to read scripture to them. Actually, what I did is I hit the snooze three times and then I decided that I was going to be late to breakfast. And so I bolted and then I didn't read it.
And then I was like, I'll do it later. I started negotiating with myself and I'm, you know, I'm sure you're listening. You can relate. And, uh, and next thing you know, I've gone two or three days without reading scripture because right. Cause once I miss one day, if I'm reading a plan, for example, um, I love the YouVersion Bible app for plans, but even if I'm just reading a chapter a day and I'm trying to get done in a certain amount of time, if you miss a day, then, and you want to try to stay caught up, then yet you need to do.
The time amounts. Right. But, but what about you, Justin? I I'd be interested to hear if you've got a story maybe on the opposite side. How, how has scripture being the primary resource and your walk with the Lord, like been a positive influence on you? Yeah. Yeah. So as a young believer, I have a similar testimony to you.
I mean, I, I knew that it was something I should be doing. I would often choose to sleep in or choose to do something else. Cause Santa's more interesting. Um, I remember in college I was being discipled and the discipler was trying to help me with this and, and process with me, um, the importance of being in the scriptures.
And he would kind of say, well, how'd it go this week? I'm like, ah, you know, I did it twice or three times. And he said, okay. And I remember that, that he brought up a verse. It was Jeremiah 23 verse 12. Uh, which says I'm not departed from the commands of his lips. I have treasured the words of his mouth more than my daily bread, and we just started talking about it and he didn't bring it up to like, hammer me with it or anything like that.
But he brought up out of his own life that had been significant for him. And he kind of shared with me about that. And, and he just asked that I would, I continue to, to continue to try to work on it and pray about it. So I did, but I couldn't get that verse out of my head. And so, as I was praying, I felt like God asked me, Justin, do you love my words more than more than your.
It was one of the, one of those questions from God, right? It's like, oh man, God, I, I know, I know the right answer to this, but, but the truthful answer is different than the right answer because painful to answer. Oh yes. Right. That's one of those cut up right. Living and active it's sharper than a double-edged sword and it penetrates us.
And so, you know, I felt like the spirit was putting his finger on that in my life. And so I made a commitment to God at that time. Uh, that for a season, I wouldn't know. Uh, eat anything day by day until I had my time with God in the word. And so that started, you know, I did it for, I think a year, year and a half where, uh, every day I would get into the scriptures before I would eat.
And as a college student, right. Snooze, button's my friend. And so there were a lot of times when I miss breakfast, there were some times that I miss lunch, but my stomach kept reminding. Hey, you need to get in the word you need to get in the word so we can eat here. And, and what happened was, as I began to do that, I saw my life begin to change, not just when the times that I eat, but really my connection to God.
Uh, the things that I understood from scripture and, um, you know, it really just had a huge, positive impact on my life as a disciple. And I really market is one of those turning points where I really began to grow. And, and in such a way in such a rate that I hadn't experienced before. So that pride, I mean, that's the first thing that comes to mind for me on, on that.
Right. Well, what I love about that is that your experience really reiterate. Um, what we see in studies all over the United States and the world when we study scripture, as a matter of fact, that the center for Bible engagement has this video, we'll link to it in the show notes. But the video says that when you begin to study, um, scripture four times a week, you get the largest return of.
Right. So if you do it once, great, you do it twice. Great. Do it three times. The growth is marginal, but if you want big growth in your life, what the research found out was that it takes four times a week, but if you get those four times a week, then you grow exponentially. And, and that just makes sense, right?
If we think about the gym, if you begin to make it a majority of your life, In this case, healthy, spiritual practice, a big part of your life, then all of a sudden, boom, you're going to grow in ways that you never know I could have imagined. Yeah. And that video is tremendous because it shows not only, um, spiritual impact.
Um, impact into your daily life, the decisions that you make, happiness that you have, um, staying away from harmful things like drugs, addictive, um, other things like pornography, et cetera, that the marriages are healthier. I mean, it has all these sorts of, of impact beyond just yourself. Right? So relational, right?
Just from engaging the scripture. Four or more times a week. And similar to Tony, it's similar to the reveal survey, which is a survey that's been done, uh, really over the past 15 years in churches, all over America, that we've done it here we have. That's right. And, and what it measures is spiritual vitality.
And one of the things that they found is that the number one driver of spiritual growth is reflection on scripture. Now notice this, this study says it's reflection on scripture, not reading scripture. And so now obviously we need to read it at some point before we can reflect on it or listen to it or something.
We need some measure of intake, but the what, what drives that growth is reflection. Thinking about it, turning it over, figuring out how we're going to apply it to our life. And so, yeah, those two things I just keep that keeps coming back to me of not only have we experienced it. All right. We've seen it proven out in these different research settings.
And so I'm curious Tony in your life now, what does, what does scripture intake look like for you and how how's it? Yeah. A lot of times in Christian circles, you'll hear this called quiet time. Right. Which is kind of a churchy word. I don't know that I really love it. But, um, I had a friend once who his discipler, one, him to have a quiet time with him and he had no framework for this term.
And so he just expected, they were going to go somewhere and sit really close. Uh, if you grew up in the church, I'm sure you've heard it before, but, but, uh, I would say that that. Quiet time for lack of a better word is intentional time with God. Right. And, and I do mine in the morning. I'm an early riser.
So I typically get up around 5, 5, 15, and I'm going to spend the first 15 to 30 minutes with God. That's kind of where I do my intake and reflection of scripture. Now I will often spend other. Time with the Lord in music and walking and those kinds of things. I love to listen to, uh, worship music really loud in my headphones sometimes to the point where it feels like I'm bathing in it, you know?
And that for me is an intentional time with God. And I pray in the shower. Not that everyone needs that visual imagery, but, um, all that to say, I start my day in the word and then kind of move on from there. And intentional times now I would say that all. Counts as quiet time, even if it's not loud, but that's not a definition that everyone subscribes to.
Um, I would be interested. Uh what's what's your definition and current practice. Yeah, so, um, my understanding of quiet times and kind of the background that I've had is it's a time where you are, um, you're praying and you're engaging the scriptures by reading and reflecting, and then you're coming out of that time with a word from God that you want to either hang on to throughout the day.
Or an action that you want to do in that day. Um, and kind of how I, I think about it and now teach it this way is, is the sandwich illustration. And so you just think of a sandwich, right? So we're going to have bread and meat and bread or bread and something in bread. Um, and so, um, in a quiet time, it's similar.
And so you want to begin by, by just praying. And settling down and focusing your thoughts on God and asking him to, to help guide you in that time. Um, and that you could really be there and to, to, to have your ears open in a sense, uh, to what he might say to you. And then you open the scriptures and begin to read, and that's the meat, right?
That's the middle of the sandwich. That's what you're, that's what you're going to be chewing on and thinking about. And as the holy spirit interacts with you through the word, um, you, you find something that you feel like God is he's, he wants you to focus on that or to say it to, to keep that with you throughout the day, or maybe to all right, fine.
I'm struggling with patients or maybe I don't think I am, but God has that stand out to me. Then I take it with me out of that. Um, but before I take it out, I close the sandwich up with another piece of bread. God. I really feel like you're asking me to, uh, to focus on patients today. I'm not sure why, um, but help me to do that, uh, help me to keep my antenna up for those situations.
And so, you know, I'll pray that, and then, you know, I'll just move into my day and similar to you. It's not. See you later, God see you tomorrow. God, it's a, all right, we're going to keep interacting. But that intentional space of a quiet time has kind of been, been set right for that day. Here's a question not related to anything that's really important.
When you think of bread on your prayer, on your sandwich, what bread do you think. So I just think of regular wheat, wheat bread. Okay. I'm artesian cheese all the way. Like I want the cheese baked into the bread. Not that it matters. See your little fancy, I'm a little bougie. Sometimes I'm a little bougie.
Um, okay. So help us with our, our takeaway for today, Justin. So I think the takeaway is if you want to grow closer to Christ, if you want to grow as a disciple, then you need to be in the word and prioritize. Yeah. Yeah. And today we want to just challenge you to begin your discipline in the scriptures. And there are lots of ways you can do that.
Uh, you can go to a, a book of the Bible, Justin and I both recommend the book of mark as is a great starting point. It's succinct it's to the point, you know, you can also do, uh, Proverbs and Psalms, you know, you could do one of those a day. Those are really powerful. Uh, sections of scripture that are a great place to start.
And then the other thing is the YouVersion Bible app. I'm a big fan of it. Uh, mostly because I bring my phone with me everywhere. And so if you're on there, you can friend request me, Tony Miltenberger. Um, if you need help, pick an a study, shoot us a message via Instagram or Facebook or email Justin and I both can, can help you get connected to all that.
Yeah. And I think another thing that, that we need to mention is that the point is that you're just taking that next step. So if you're sitting there and listen to this and you're engaging the scriptures once a week or two times a week, you know, what does it look like for you to take that next step?
Right? So that you're at three times a week or four times a week, or if you're sitting there and you're five times a week, then how do you move it up to six or seven times a week? The more that we can be in God's word. It helps equip us. And really, it helps us with every aspect of life as a disciple. And if we want to invest in other people and disciple them, the word of God needs to be our primary tool.
And so if, if we don't, if we don't model that practice in our own life, and if we don't have anything from the word to give to others, then we're really going to struggle in disciple-making. And so, again, just. Progress, right? What's that next step? Yeah. I'd love to say a one degree shift, right? Just do one degree different today to grow closer to God and figure out what that looks like in the word.
And, uh, I guarantee you will not be disappointed. You will not be disappointed. Hey everybody, thank you so much for spending some time with us today. We really appreciate the generosity that you give us, uh, by putting us in your ears. And, uh, and we thank you. We thank you so much. If you could please do us a huge favor.
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