18. Practitioner's Podcast: The Impact of Consumerism on Discipleship Part 3
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the practitioners podcast. When we're applying Jesus style disciple-making to everyday life. This episode in all of our episodes are powered by navigators church ministries which focuses on helping churches make disciples who can make disciples for more information check out their website navigators church ministries.com.
Justin how are you? I'm doing great. Tony how you doing today? Better than I deserve. Random question of the day. Yep. We're talking about life and a little bit about retirement today. So I'm curious what is the perfect job you want to do in retirement? Not like a ministry job at like your little side job somebody do just to stay busy.
Ooh that's a hard question. So I don't really plan to retire. Hopefully I'll be able to continue to engage this ministry as long as I'm here but I'm. I'm really bad with hobbies basketball. Hope I can keep playing basketball. How about that? oh this is a no brainer for me. I've thought about this one a lot.
I would like to be the old man at the golf course that takes tickets. Oh right. I'd like to wear my socks really high and my shorts equally high. And then I'd like to take tickets. From around 7:30 AM till 1145 or noon. And then I'd like to go into the clubhouse. I'd like to have a hot dog every day play a little bit of cards and then I like to go play the back nine for free because I'm an employee.
Wow. I can tell you sorry about that. Well I just think it's good to have goals and then what's going to happen is I'm going to start discipling the old men at the golf course. Nice. I like it. Yeah. Cause you know I got a passion for sports and sports disciple-making and how that all works. And I think that there's an opportunity there.
Yeah I think it's going to be a lot of fun and and I think it's a it's a good way to stay away from my wife all day long and still be able to do something that I enjoyed doing. I'm sorry baby. And listen to this episode. All right. Awesome. Well today Tony we're continuing in our series on consumerism and the impact of consumerism on disciple-making.
today is part three. So part one as you guys have heard if you haven't go back and listen it these things build on each other the concepts build. So the first one was satisfaction can be purchased. So this one of the lies that consumerism tells us and part of the implication of that lie is that money.
Takes the top place in our culture society. Now in that episode we also defined a consumer as someone who has surrendered to other people or to institutions the power to provide what is essential for a necessary life. So that was part one. And then last episode part two we looked at. how purchasing power is found in systems.
And so since satisfaction can be purchased people figure out why how do I find money then? How do I purchase the satisfaction? And the answer was. You got to participate in a system and that in the west especially we are groomed for a life within systems starting in the hospital at birth all the way through hospice at death.
we live and exist in systems and our culture is dominated by those systems and it often moves us into a position of either being a provider of services. Or a consumer of those of those services. And what is most often scarce in that sort of a culture is time. And so that's where we've been today. We are going into part three which is that systems demand our identity.
And again I'm going to start by just unpacking some things and then Tony you and I can interact over it. but we're going to begin because today John is waking up to his dream come true. After decades of coloring inside the lines and playing by the rules his reward has finally arrived today. John woke up to his retirement and for John today and tomorrow is going to be amazing.
He's finally reached that destination that he's dreamed of and worked towards for decades. And even though he's going to be really excited to do. A week from now two weeks from now a month from now six months from now that some point that euphoria is going to give way to a deep sense of satisfaction dissatisfaction rather and that dissatisfaction he'll think at first he's just adjusting to retirement right?
That that alright the honeymoon period has worn off and he will just try to find different distractions that kind of keep him away from experiencing that dissatisfaction. But as the days and weeks stretch into months and years he'll decide to return to work. He'll decide that this retirement thing just wasn't for him and he'll make the conclusion that he just doesn't know how to feel whole without issue.
And see what this means is that for years his participation in the system has not only been a way a means to an end. It has become the end for him because what has happened is he's been discipled into someone that he didn't even realize he was being discipled into. And so that's a common experience for most people that reach retirement not only has the have they gotten that purchasing power but it's changed their very identity.
Now why does this happen? So in a consumeristic culture this happens because in order to institutionalize something to break something down into individual parts or systems and then manage them we have both the consumer and the producer. Needs to be depersonalized. And we see this all over because we see that as soon as robots are able to take over our human jobs companies and corporations prefer the robots to the person because the person is there to produce.
Nothing more nothing less. They're there to do the job. We see the problem in workplaces that are they're trying to avoid the humanity of workers coming into the workplace. And so they have anti fraternization policies. The discouraged relationships. And it's not that the relationships are a problem for the company.
The problem comes when relationships have relationship outcomes such as conflict or breakups if they were in a relationship together and they're afraid that relationships will get in the way of productivity. And so workers are expected to maintain what's called a professional distance at work. So when we dwell in these cultures and we dwell in these systems for decades on end it impacts our values.
And we learned to form relationships in a certain way. And the certain way of relating to one another. I refer to as nice comfortable relationships. We keep people at an arms distance and we keep them at an arms distance because that's what we're taught to do. Because we're there to produce. We're not there to relate and have fun and get to know people.
We are trained to believe that production is more important than personhood. And that's what John learned. You see John likes so many other others surrendered to crowns of human identity. And one of those crowns is self-expression and the other is creativity that happened within the context of loving and loving relationships.
You see what we see in a consumeristic culture is that as we have relationship after relationship keeping people at arms distance we realize that we're not fulfilled or not fulfilled relationally. And we think the problem might be us and it might be us. But the problem is also certainly impacted by our participation and involvement in consumeristic systems.
These systems demand our identity. And the result of living in these systems for decades are shallow relationships but also boredom. And when I say boredom I don't mean necessarily that we are bored although that happens but that we become boring. We no longer know how to love the world. We no longer know how to have it be enough.
The culture demands repetition and predictability. And so most of us lose the ability to relate to our own heart or to the hearts of others. Consumerism has taught us just to do the work and then it teaches us how to handle that boredom to now pay attention to this because you know you might be sitting there thinking well I don't know if I'm bored.
You know I feel like I I got stuff to do. I have things I'm engaging in but the way that consumerism handles the boredom of consumers is by asking them to consume. And so in your nonproductive time what is it that you've spend time doing? What do you enjoy doing the most for most consumers for most people in a consumeristic culture like ours though number one way that we like to handle our non-productive time.
Our non-work time is by consuming by being entertained. Right. So you think of video games or Netflix or shopping or sports. I mean all these things are so ingrained in us that the idea of sitting and creating something or the idea of going out and making a new friend that you don't know. You know we often don't think about those things.
They don't seem desirable or they just seem like too much. And so we just sit and we consume. And so what we're what we're focusing and honing in on today is this idea that consumerism demands our identity by participating in these systems. And it happens in such a slow methodical way that most of us don't even notice it's happening and the result happens or it reaches the surface of the water line where we can see it only after.
We retire or some other big life event happens what we've been dreaming about for decades. And now we're there. And we realize that isn't what we want anymore because we've lost our ability to be in the world. And so what had become a means to an end I'm going to have this job and make this money so that I can purchase things.
And so that I can have satisfaction now it's. And the job itself is what provides us satisfaction because it is how we know who we are in the context of that working world. And then the context of that system. So Tony let me stop there. what what did you hear? How did it impact you? Where do you want to go with it?
Yeah. I mean so obviously you and I are both parents. And so it's really easy to see this in the development of the next generation. It's a lot harder to see it in the development of ourselves. Although it's clearly there. One of the things that it struck a chord in me as you were talking about the idea about boredom and consumerism is this idea that a lot of our kids.
mine especially or mine that I can speak to specifically is a better way to say it have lost the ability to play with any sense of imagination. And I would do a little bit of research on this for a podcast. And one of the things that I recognized is that. It takes about 30 minutes of boredom to get to creativity.
So 30 minutes of boredom to get to creativity which means that it requires 30 minutes of not doing anything before we have enough space in our lives. And I'm going to say space away from the systems of the culture. In order to create something really different unique and profound. And we even in our house we call our electronic tablets.
We call them electronic devices which is such a funny name to me because a device is something that we use to cope and to kind of change our perspective. And so when you're on a device You're in the thick of being consumed. And you know Netflix is is famous for this. YouTube is famous for this.
It's an automatic scroll meaning that it automatically goes from one video and then 15 seconds later it goes to the next. and it wasn't until recently after years and years of of being highly successful at what those their objectives are. Did they put something into the equation that says are you still.
Right. And and have because they want it they want to tap it and they want to see if you're all right. And so I you know I think it's really easy to see that we live in a culture that wants to to kind of You know suck suck us in. And and in that process we lose who we are. Right. Does that make sense?
Yeah. Yeah we are. We get so immersed and you know pulled in or sucked in to these these systems of entertainment. Even that we we can you know spend a whole evening doing those sorts of things and then turn things off and get ready for bed and just feel This feel really exhausted. even though we we started it thinking it was going to relax us and be something that you know gave us energy in life.
And a lot of times it does the exact opposite because we we kinda zone out. We're just entertained and it's one thing to the next and it doesn't fulfill us the way that we're meant to be fulfilled the way that God's designed us. Yeah. And and I think that this is a real problem in disciple-making because when we lose our identity for the sake of the culture we lose the responsibility or our personal part of the mission you know you and I over the course of our podcasts talk a ton about this idea that we are all called.
To be disciple makers Matthew 28 go therefore and make disciples of all nations. It's not a spiritual gift right there. It's not like Hey someone else has to do it or or you have to do it. We are all called to make disciples. This is what it means to find our identity in Christ because a crucial part of what Christ did was make disciples.
So if we're going to hold on to that identity then we need to then. step out in the way that Christ did and and make disciples but we won't be able to think that way if we're waiting for a system to come in and do it for us right? Yeah. Yeah. I I've seen that too. There's there's kind of a passively in the church and in life because consumerisms kind of taught us that if we're not working then we should be sitting back and enjoying the work of somebody else.
and what you're saying is that no we're all called on mission. And when we're not working our nine to five job it's not the time to sit back right. The time to engage the mission that Christ has given us is not only at work but also when we're not at work. Right. When we're sitting at home we're walking along the road.
Right? All those sorts of things wherever we are whenever we are that's the time to engage in the mission that Christ has given us. And you know if we're buying into the consumeristic mindset the time for producing is when we're working. Not when we're not working. Yeah. I mean pastoring for the last seven years one of the things that I would hear all the time they'd come up and they'd say pastor Tony I just don't feel like I know anyone in the church.
W what can we do? There's there's a disconnect between and this is what I would get all the time. There's a major disconnect between the old and new members of the church. And so my response was always instilled to this day is if anybody were to ask me about this when I work with churches I always like to ask people well what are you doing to close the gate?
You know what's your part in this? And and the hard part is is I think most people can't get creative about what it means to be intentional in closing the gap. You know what I mean? Because they've been so sucked into the system. Well Hey if you don't have a potluck and you don't put name tags on us and you don't do a mixer then there's no way we're going to get to know anyone.
It's not my job to make sure that you have relationships that's core to your identity in Christ Christ never did relationships alone. Right? Hey if you want to follow Christ get with some people and have those people in your life. Yeah. So why do you think people have trouble having relationships or knowing how to move those forward?
And I realize I'm asking an extrovert on this who loves relationships but what do you see? What do you think? I think most often there's a fear of being rejected out of the system of the world that we live in. You know we we see this all the time on social media right? Is I have a social media and outward expression of who I am and it's not my broken self.
I one of the things I've realized a long time ago is that everyone will identify as a sinner. I've never gone to a church. And I've said raise your hand is a center where someone didn't raise their hand. Everyone always raises their hand. And yet no one ever wants to be called out for their sin. Hmm. Mm.
And it's because they're afraid they won't fit in if their center if their sin is is is labeled yet what I'm looking for. And I and I think what happens in healthy disciple-making is we have enough intimacy where I can call out someone's sin and someone can call out mine. Yeah no that's good. All right.
I said what are you saying? It's a disconnection right? We we have these arm length relationships but we're not close enough to connect to somebody else's heart. And we can't we can't say that to them but you know another part of that is I'm I'm not even sure a lot of people are able to meaningly meaningfully connect to their own hearts.
Right. It's to ask somebody or you know just personally you know there are days where I'm like I don't even know what's going on with. No I feel like I'm just going from one thing to the next instead of really knowing you know what is actually going on inside me that's causing me to to be the way that I am in the world whether that's emotionally to experience the world in a certain way or to connect or not want to connect you know I'm just not even sure.
Right. Because it's hard to connect our own hearts sometimes in the midst of all the entertainment and movement in our culture. Yeah. I think that. I think if we're going to want to turn away from this idea about the numbness of the world. Then we're going to have to get back to our biblical identity in Christ and and not not our identity in the culture not our even our our gene illogical you know our family identity but but truly the only identity that that can truly be trusted which is you know which is what we see in Christ.
Yeah I like that. So Tony really we've we've kind of identified a couple of things right. In in terms of how this is impacting the church as the people of the church and disciple-making we see kind of a pervasive passively we see a disconnection from the heart both our own but also inability to connect to other people's hearts.
And I think the other thing and you're kind of getting at this with this idea of identity and Christ is that we often have an inability to believe that God desires to use us as his right. Cause if we don't think we're the experts then we have trouble thinking well God must be using those people.
Not me. and it's those things that well if we really believe our identity in Christ that you know he says that that the student will be like his mask. Well for a student we are becoming like that. If we really are you know a priesthood of all believers there's no difference between me as a priest and in terms of how God sees me and somebody who's been to seminary and is pastoring in a church we're both priests with a different.
at a different aim right? Where we're aimed is a little bit different but in terms of our calling it's the same. And it's these ideas that I think are super important. When we think about how do we avoid these ideas of you know our identity being demanded from. as a result of living or experiencing a consumeristic culture man Tony we're almost out of time already.
can you take us out with kind of our takeaway for the day and our action step? Yeah it was a quick discussion today because this is such a big and important topic. So we'll try to simplify it as best we can with our takeaway and action. Step. The takeaway is this. We lose our identity in Christ. When we succumb to culture we you and I lose our identity in Christ when we succumb to culture.
And the action step is turn to God's word turn to God's word and find your identity in him in Christ. So we want to challenge you guys dive into scripture this week. See what God has to say about you. And maybe even write it down put it on your bathroom mirror put it somewhere where you won't lose it.
It's probably going to be a daily battle for all of us to to fight back culture and see ourselves through crisis. As always it's our pleasure to be with you every single week. We're thankful to be on this journey with you. Do us a favor hit that subscribe button wherever you listen to podcasts Lee be sure to leave us a rating review on iTunes and now on Spotify.
So leave your rating and review on either either or or both if you're feeling real froggy. And now we can't wait to jump in next week. As we talk about discipling like Jesus with special guests. Dan Spader. Dan's a phenomenal Jesus scholar. I know you're going to love this conversation. Be here next week.
Make sure you hit that subscribe button discipling like Jesus and interview with Dan Spader. We'll see you guys real soon.