Hey everybody welcome back to the Practitioners Podcast where we're applying Jesus style disciple making to everyday life. This episode and all of our episodes are powered by Navigators Church Ministries which help churches live out the Great Commission. For more information or to get connected go to navigatorschurchministries.org. Friends today on the podcast we're going to talk about the friend zone. What does that mean to you Justin? I'm Oh man brings up brings back bad memories from school. Right where I was friend zone but didn't want to be.
That's right. But in disciple making the friend zone is equally as dangerous. If we don't know that we're there and I actually think that that happens to a lot of guys and gals when they're put in the friend zone is that they don't know they're in the friend zone. And so because our podcast is all about Jesus style disciple making.
Why don't we talk a little bit about what it means to be friend zoned in disciple making. Yes so we're talking about disciple making and not relationships but the friend zone is very real in it. So that's why we're kind of using some of that language. But we're really in one of these episodes that talks about the difference right?
We've done some of these episodes in the past the difference between mentoring and disciple making difference between disciple and Christian. We've done a few of these sorts of episodes. And today the episode is the difference between friendship and disciple making. or being in the friend zone in disciple making and what we're really proposing here is that these two are not the same right?
There's a difference between being in a friendship with someone and discipling someone. Now what we're not suggesting is that these things can never coexist because they can. Sometimes you are discipling someone and you're also friends with them. In fact that's the ideal. That's what we want to work towards if we are not that already.
but we're also suggesting that just because you're friends with someone it doesn't mean you're discipling them or just because you're discipling someone it doesn't mean that you are friends with them. So this is where it gets really interesting right? Like if if you're only a friend with someone you're not really actively making disciples.
But if you're not friends with someone who you're discipling then you're not gonna get life on life relationship. And so we're always gonna live in the tension of hey we have to be relational. And that requires friendship. but relationship for relationship sake's not the only thing. So we've got kind of three different areas that that we're gonna talk about.
But before we do that I I think it's important to kind of give you a story for some context.
Yes so our story that can help you give context I'm laughing because I was just distracted for a second. But alright so our story to give context have you ever heard of somebody saying that they're discipling someone? And as you get to talking about it with them what you realize is they're just spending time together right?
They're going to play golf or they're having lunch with regularity they're doing different things like that. But as you listen you're not hearing anything about intentionality. You're not hearing anything about vision about focus. and so there's absolutely nothing wrong with friendship. It's one of the greatest gifts that God has given to us in our lives is to have friends that can help support you and.
with you that you can encourage that can encourage you etc etc. But there's some differences between friendship and discipleship and we're gonna go through those now. I'm gonna start. The first difference between friendship and disciple making Is a difference in primary aim a difference in primary aim.
So what is this the way that you're connecting? How is it aimed? What is it for is another way to say that. So friendship is aimed primarily at enjoyment right? It's about connection socially right? We enjoy being together. We have some commonalities. We're connecting on all those sorts of things and as we share whether it's activities together or things that we like to do together commonalities of just kind of how our lives are whether it's parenting marriage hobbies et cetera et cetera we are connecting around those things and that's the whole point right is we're just enjoying that.
But disciple making is different. Disciple making isn't aimed at enjoyment. Disciple making is aimed at maturity and reproduction. And so just like we talk about on this podcast so often disciple making the way that we talk about it is Jesus style disciple making. So we want to become like Jesus. And so when we are discipling someone or when we are being discipled the aim is really clear.
It's for us to get to a place of maturity. Where we can reproduce the same thing into the lives of others. That's right. And I think that that reproduction is kind of that key part there. I don't have many friends that I'm like Oh we should talk about what spiritual reproduction looks like here instead.
Like it's it's generally aimed at something usually mutual enjoyment or just friendship or you know just hanging out or fantasy football or whatever. So. I love that idea of primary aim. Now the second one is the difference in environment right? Friendship exists in a relational environment but disciple making exists in a relational and intentional environment.
So allow me to elaborate. I've got a dear friend of mine who I've been discipling and he and I. Schedule time on our calendars to meet right? We do it every other week. We have very specific homework goals when it comes to how God is moving in his life and how he wants God to move in his life. And we're talking through the wheel or we're talking through something like that.
And recently I just had him write out a vision statement for what disciple making looks like in accordance to scripture. Guess what? If bros at the hangout and I'm like Hey we should do this. They would laugh me out of the joint right? They would they would never never engage in this. Why? Not because they're not great guys.
They're great guys. But because the environment is not intentional in that regard. Just like if I if I went to a fantasy football draft and I tried to bring up scripture that would be the same thing right? So the environment really matters. The environment really matters. And when you're making disciples you create an intentional environment.
That helps people as we talked about earlier respond and reproduce because the aim is different right? So it's in a lot of ways that environment which typically for Justin and I usually involves a coffee shop and a meeting place right? That environment is focused and it creates a space to make sure that our aim is on point for what we're trying to do.
Yeah. And I think as. As we think about Jesus and how he did this right? He created an environment with those that he was discipling right up front. Come follow me Jesus said and I will make you fishers of men Matthew 4 19. So he is telling them at the front at the start. This is not just about us connecting and enjoying one another.
This is about Reaching something different helping you become something that you currently are not right? And so they begin in that intentional environment and of course it's relational too right? If we only have an intentional environment it's not Jesus style disciple making. If we only had a relational environment which really friendship is a good definition of it's it's relational.
Only or at the very very least primarily and and the majority of it. And so if that's all we have it's also not Jesus style disciple making. And so there's a difference in environment between the two. Okay. Our third one is there's a difference in duration and durability. Now let me let me unpack this a little bit for us right?
So friendships are built around connection. We've already talked about that but because they're built around connection they're more fragile. Right so if there's a change in in season if you know maybe you've connected with a friend over a sport or something like that then that means that you know maybe the friendship withers a little bit.
Maybe it it the connection starts to wane. As our commonalities go so might our friendship go. But even though they're more fragile they also may may last a lot longer. So if the friendship goes deep and if the friendship is such that there's a lot of connections a lot of shared values and interests and priorities.
There are friendships that can really span a lifetime. And those are not only rare but to be really treasured right? But disciple making is a little bit different. Again because disciple making since it's not primarily built around relational connection And it's more built around a commitment together of doing something and becoming something.
They're more durable. They're not as fragile right? If I don't connect with somebody I'm discipling on a relational level I want to continue to work on that and develop it. But I don't need to be great friends with everyone I'm discipling. I need to invest in them I need to love them well and almost all the time when I'm doing that friendship will develop.
But there are people I've discipled and it's gone really well on both sides that I wouldn't really have a huge interest in just hanging out with them relationally. Now it doesn't mean I don't do it it doesn't mean that we don't have an okay time when it happens but there's just that That thing that we're just not connecting on that level as much.
And that's okay if it's disciple making. So even though it's more durable because the commit the commitment drives the connection and disciple making it may also be shorter right? Because disciple making is not intended to be a lifelong thing. Jesus invested in his guys for three years in our world. In our time it might be three years.
It might be five might be seven but eventually If the disciple making is going well you get to a point where really you feel like you're you're peers right? And you have given them what you had to give them and they have taken what they have what they can and now they are living it out in the way that they've been designed.
And so a little bit different but now there's there's no longer that need for you to disciple them. It's more it becomes a lot of times more of a friendship at the end of it. And you kind of pivot out a little more. Yeah I think one of the interesting things about this is that if if you don't ever make the pivot outs of disciple making then what ends up happening is you can create a sense of dependency right?
So the the idea of of having someone be an independent disciple maker is clearly what 72 in Luke's gospel. He sends out the 72. He's sending them out. They're friends but they're also intentional right? They know what they're aiming at. They know where they're going. They're they're kind of creating the tools and this is why we always talk about what it means to be tool based.
So we send out Jesus sends out the 72 so they can go have an experience and then come back. So he also sent them out in twos because he understands that the relationship is important. Right we see the same thing in Paul and Timothy. Timothy's letters 1st and 2nd Timothy are great examples of Paul being both a friend but also a spiritual father.
He even calls Timothy my spiritual son in the faith. Right. And so that's a very intentional relationship that's also very personal. So again right he's moving them out of the friend zone and into the intentionality zone. Tony I think that's such a great point because there is danger right? If we stay in that that dependency that you talked about can you tell us more?
Like what what might that result in right? If I was going to continue to disciple somebody. Almost as if I wasn't releasing them or I wasn't trying to get them to a place where they were able to thrive without me. what might that look like then and how could that really be harmful? Well I think the biggest danger in that is that if you spent that much time saying follow me follow me follow me then what ends up happening is it becomes personality based disciple making and not Jesus based disciple making.
And so all of a sudden what's happened is I'm teaching someone to follow me not someone to follow Jesus right? And it's really hard. To reproduce if not impossible to reproduce if I'm only showing someone what my life looks like if they don't ever go and do it. That's how we create space for the Holy Spirit right?
Which is what we talked about right in the last episode. God has to work. And so if I'm holding on to you because you're the person I've discipled and I'm not letting you go then I'm not letting space for God to take you to a place that I never could. Does that make sense? Yeah I love that. I think that's so important for us to remember as we're discipling that we are Intending someone to become a disciple maker Where they can depend on the Spirit of God the Word of God and their relationship with God to move out Into the lives of others to disciple them effectively not to collect followers for ourselves right?
We're trying to create followers of Jesus who are dependent on Him not people who are dependent on us. So disciple making in that sense is you know there's a term to it. There's a limited amount of time and space in our lives that we should be discipling that one person. And then we need to move on.
And if we're never moving on if they're never getting to multiply or if we're never releasing them to do that then there's a problem there. Right. And we need to we need just need to be aware of that. Justin I think that there's probably somebody who's listening right now who's feeling super convicted.
I know anytime I read the show notes and I kind of looking at things I'm like Oh man I've done this before. And so I would be interested in hearing your thoughts. What are you going to tell the disciple maker? Who's listening right now? Who's who's landed firmly in the friend zone right? They're they're not there's a lack of intentionality.
There's a lack of aim. They're not sure about durability and duration right? What are you what are you going to tell them? How do they get unstuck from the friend zone? Yeah that's a great question. So if that's you if that's you listening right now and you're feeling that way I just want to encourage you to take heart.
We've been there right? Tony and I have been there. We have intended to Develop a disciple making relationship woken up and realize that really what we have is a little more like a friendship and maybe just that's all it is. And so there's a way to get back on track right? So I would encourage you to go back and listen to episode.
We did I think it was last season on assessing your disciple making relationship. And so really what you need to do is you need to ask some questions right? And you need to ask them not only of yourself but also have a conversation with that person that. that you're in a friendship with but you meant to have a disciple making relationship with them and kind of ask like Hey in your mind what are we doing here?
Why did we come together? do you feel like we're we're reaching those goals? Or if if it was never stated they might say what do you mean? We're just hanging out like this is great. and then you would need a conversation of well This is probably my fault because I didn't explain this well or I didn't keep it as a focus.
And so just take some of the blame. It's okay. hey I'm learning here and try to get it back on track and to ask and invite them. Hey this is what I would like to do with you. Are you open to that? And so really it's a it's a re enrolling. It's a enlisting them again and saying hey can we do this? Can we get back to this?
What do you think? and if you can get some agreement again around Hey we're trying to be in a discipling relationship here then it's a lot easier to get back on track. But it's going to be real hard to get back on track if you don't have one of those conversations because again you are in this sort of pattern of relating that maybe fits more of a friendship.
Tony how what would you add to that? What do you think? Well I don't know what I have to add is super like helpful in order of getting out but let me let me just say this. There came a point in one of my disciple making relationships where I just decided to lean into the friend zone and get out of the disciple making zone right?
And so I brought clarity in the other way. And he and I this young man and I we were meeting regularly for disciple making except it really wasn't. And so we're having regular lunches and we were good friends. And so eventually what had ended up coming down to is. It's me realizing that he wasn't faithful available teachable in this season of life.
Okay. but I still wanted him in my life. So I just moved him all the way to the friend zone and I didn't give him any time in the in the hours of my week that I normally a lot for disciple making. Right. And so basically like I I just kind of moved them over to a different compartment of my life and and he's still in my life.
He's still a friend. You know I wouldn't say that we're like the closest friends in the world. But. At the end of the day I love being with him and and our families get along well. So you know we're just friends and that's okay too but I had to remove him from the disciple making kind of compartment of the relationships in my life.
Okay so in that situation it sounds like as you were praying about it as you were examining what had kind of shifted in the relationship what I what I hear you saying is that you found or God led you to see that Hey this guy just wasn't ready yet. Yeah. That's right. To be. to show up the way he would need to in a disciple making relationship.
And so you just moved him over to friendship. And so you know I'm curious how did that go? I mean you kind of insinuated that you're still connected. But in that initial conversation how did that go? Was it received well? Did it was it a big conversation? What was it like? It was a pretty quick conversation in the sense of like I'm like Hey we had talked about disciple making I can tell that you're not currently in a season where you really want to do the things that are intentional in disciple making.
we can still be friends. I probably don't have the capacity in this season of my life to meet with you every other week and just be friends. And so why don't you shoot me some dates for next month and we'll see if we can hook up maybe even bring the wives you know like it was a. So you know and again right like we are our paths still intersect regularly and I'm thankful he's in my life.
And I still pray that someday he'll become faithful available teachable and he'll want to slide back over to disciple making. Yeah. That's awesome. Okay. So. let me share the takeaway and Tony I'm going to kick the action step back to you. But our takeaway today is friendship and disciple making are not the same but they may overlap.
And it's important for us to understand the difference right? So friendship and disciple making are not the same. There may be some overlap. And again looking back at Jesus our goal is that the people we disciple not only do they become disciple makers. But we become friends with them. That's what we're moving towards but it might not always happen.
We just need to keep that difference clear in our mind. Tony how about our action step? The action step. take some time this week evaluate disciple making relationships and make sure you aren't stuck in the friend zone. Right? Evaluate and make sure you aren't stuck in the friend zone. we hope and pray that this takeaway and action step are super useful in your disciple making process.
And as always friends we are forever thankful. That you listen and share this episode with a friend or fellow disciple maker. Maybe you could share it with your pastor. Talk a little bit about what it means to get out of the friend zone. As always guys we're super thankful for you and we look forward to connecting with you real soon.